quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 TTC Fare Structure, June 1996: Adult fares: $2 cash; 10 tickets for $16; Metropass $83 Children 12 and under: 50¢ cash; 10 tickets for $4 Students and Seniors (with ID): $1.35 cash; 10 tickets for $10.70; Metropass $73 Day Pass: $6.50 Looks like about a 50% increase on the fares No one likes inflation but compared to other major expenses this does not seem out of line when compared to the cost of other major expenses. Groceries, night or a meal out, housing and especially gas (100 % as it was 49.9 in 1998) which the TTC requires plenty of, all seem to have gone up at a comparable rate. If we want to compare our TTC to world class cities, try going for an end to end ride on the Tube in London paying single fare

But look at the service you get for it!!!!

Also for them, the rates are not that expensive. When using canadian pesos its damned expensive!

As for inflation.. TTC rates are beyond that of inflation. No doubt there should be increases but not at the rate they have been going. Furthermore, we pay world class rates for a substandard service. The biggest liability the TTC has are salaries and you know it.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 i've witnessed an executive at a private organisation telling highly specialized staff in an IT sector that they 'better get real' about their compensation if they want to 'compete in the global market'.. what he was implying was that they can't expect to be making a 6 figure income since their position could be outsourced to india.. its bullshit, because if they thought it was more profitable, they would've done it anyways its this type of threatening demeanour that needs to be stopped, as it gives unfair leverage to the idiocy that is the upper management.. and its typical of corporate mis-management whose interest is solely in maximizing personal bonuses at expense of the general workforce you get rid of the unions, this will get out of control (as if it hasn't already).. on the other hand, the ttc union has gotten out of control and needs to be put in its place

And yet it does get stopped - without unions, which don't exist in the IT sector.

When this mismanagement happens in the private sector, especially the IT sector or any technology-dependent sector, highly-qualified employees leave, taking their skills and experience with them, and the company dies a slow death, especially if any of those people decide to work for a competitor.

It may sound unsympathetic but if any of these highly qualified IT professionals listened to that speech and didn't call his bluff then maybe they don't deserve the kind of compensation they're asking for at all. We all know that the top engineers and IT workers are as much as 10 times more productive than the bottom rung (which includes most offshore IT firms) and produce better quality; add to that the language barrier and the overhead and extra management requirements of dealing with what is essentially an extremely remote satellite office, and the net cost could easily come out to 3-5 times more than finding and paying qualified employees at home.

If anybody who's worked in this industry for more than a few years doesn't know this or can't articulate it properly then I'd argue that they haven't really earned a 6-figure salary. Inflation aside, that rung is still reserved for people with technology and business skills, and maybe the upper-echelon multi-billion dollar software houses like Microsoft and Google. Specialization in and of itself doesn't guarantee you better compensation, it merely provides the employee with additional negotiating leverage, same as a union.

Almost everybody who's lived the corporate life has a panoply of horror stories and WTF moments to share, but none of it means that unions are the answer. Most of what I've seen in the private sector seems downright tame compared to the unionized public sector.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 it shouldnt even be a career any more than mcdonalds should be. You know what i mean?

well yea, but obviously some have chosen to make a career out of it..

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 TTC Fare Structure, June 1996: Adult fares: $2 cash; 10 tickets for $16; Metropass $83 Children 12 and under: 50¢ cash; 10 tickets for $4 Students and Seniors (with ID): $1.35 cash; 10 tickets for $10.70; Metropass $73 Day Pass: $6.50 Looks like about a 50% increase on the fares No one likes inflation but compared to other major expenses this does not seem out of line when compared to the cost of other major expenses. Groceries, night or a meal out, housing and especially gas (100 % as it was 49.9 in 1998) which the TTC requires plenty of, all seem to have gone up at a comparable rate. If we want to compare our TTC to world class cities, try going for an end to end ride on the Tube in London paying single fare

what you fail to comprehend is that even in 1996 they were OVERPAID!

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 well yea, but obviously some have chosen to make a career out of it..

and some choose to make a career out of mcdonalds.... the pay is still the same!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 But look at the service you get for it!!!! Also for them, the rates are not that expensive. When using canadian pesos its damned expensive! As for inflation.. TTC rates are beyond that of inflation. No doubt there should be increases but not at the rate they have been going. Furthermore, we pay world class rates for a substandard service. The biggest liability the TTC has are salaries and you know it.

The tube costs 4 pound sterling per fare. Otherwise known as 8 dollars. Is the service THAT much better? No I was on it this summer, it's a subway...

As stated, I don't think that 50% is that far out of line with other major expenses in 13 years. Housing has almost doubled in the city, so has gas, and I remember filling my grocery cart for just over hundred bucks. Not anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 The tube costs 4 pound sterling per fare. Otherwise known as 8 dollars. Is the service THAT much better? No I was on it this summer, it's a subway... As stated, I don't think that 50% is that far out of line with other major expenses in 13 years. Housing has almost doubled in the city, so has gas, and I remember filling my grocery cart for just over hundred bucks. Not anymore.

ive been on it several times...

yes its a subway... and it goes EVERYWHERE. As do the trains and buses. I never felt compelled once to rent a car in london and i went everywhere from the burbs to downtown as well as 3 airports (it was my hub for my cheap european flights)

Cash fares zone 1-6 with the oyster card

3.80 peak
2.20 off peak

Considering that most things there are pretty well charged in pounds as if they were dollars, the rates average out to be the same as here for far superior service.

now if you only want to go a few zones the fares get even cheaper.

Also if you stay out of zone 1 altogether the rates are anywhere from 1.10 to 3.20. Still cheaper than here for the most part.

Again you cannot apply exchange rates here as its irrelevant. And as i said, typically prices are the same in the UK as here but expressed in pounds instead.

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 I've worked in a union environment for 10 years and it's not as lazy as you might think. I don't get any paid holidays, I don't get paid for stat holidays, I have no sick days,I have no job security or seniority, and if I stop producing I can and will be laid off at anytime with zero severance. It happened to a coworker of 7 years this summer

This is correct, but that was because you were a temporary or contractual. I was a temporary for a few months (before becoming a permanent), and had no benefits other than a 11.75% raise to compensate for the holidays/vacations.

To unions, temps and contractuals are worth less than shit and it's all done on purpose (go thank your union)... until you become a permanent employee and that's when the laziness kicks in because even god can't lay you off.

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Crappy news

I'm glad I no longer have to deal with traveling downtown via the subway everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Isn't the transit pass tax deductable in Canada though?

yup.. and that was their justification in raising the pass last time. They literally said that it was their way of transferring money from the feds to them.

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 The tube costs 4 pound sterling per fare. Otherwise known as 8 dollars. Is the service THAT much better? No I was on it this summer, it's a subway...

Not much point in comparing fares when the entire system is publicly funded. What you should really be comparing is the total operating cost vis-a-vis the system's extent, frequency and ridership (literally, what is the hypothetical cost to move 1 rider 1 km with a guaranteed 1-minute wait time).

Even then, there are other aspects to the quality of a system such as comfort and overall customer service. I won't pretend I know of any perfect system for measuring and consolidating these things, but it should serve to illustrate the inadequacy of fares alone as a measure of success or efficiency.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here