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Originally posted by miamitranceman We all DJ what we want to/have to for a million different reasons, clearly. Bottom line, I don't care how many gigs you've had or even if you're only a bedroom DJ, no one person is better than another to say what you should be playing or how you should be playing it or for what reasons, and that's what got this thread off the deep end in the first place.

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Originally posted by Clovis Honestly, the only person you should be DJing for, at the heart, is yourself.

These two things are both very very important.

Honestly, as much drama/silliness as there is in this thread, I find it fairly interesting to see all these different perspectives and approaches to DJing as both a career and an art form.

Here's a little more insight from my perspective, for what it's worth. Forgive my long-windedness. I'm prepared for tl;dr

Here in moderately small Dayton, OH, I'm in a bit of a strange situation. The scene (if you'll forgive the term) here has been fairly dead for a number of years, but it really wasn't always that way. There was a fairly decent market for electronic music back in the mid-90's to early 2000's, though it was often more focused along the vein of industrial/goth, big beat, synthpop, and even some hard house, acid techno, etc. The main point being, the younger side of the "going out" group within the city was much more open-minded than the current equivalent. And by that, I mean that they didn't go out to hear the same shit they heard on the radio all day. They were excited to hear new sounds. They had the "what the hell is this song, it's amazing!" mentality that you see very little of today. There was a club here called The Asylum which is pretty much legendary amongst the locals. You had the club packed with hundreds of people three times a week, everyone dancing, partying, smiling... having a great time.



The scene in Dayton was very alive for a city of this size, largely due to the success of the Asylum, a decent rave scene at the end of the 90's, and people just being in the right place at the right time. Eventually, things moved more in a hard dance and DnB direction, and then eventually all but disappeared.

The above picture is but a faded memory to many of my older friends, and unfortunately, something I never really got to experience here.

Fast forward to now. I was never able to really be a part of that scene (I was 14 or 15 years old when things were really going well, and I didn't even really know what this stuff was.) I started going out in the mid-2000's. By then, hip hop had already taken over in the bigger clubs. So now, what we're left with is a group of older, jaded people that used to be involved in the scene, and a bunch of young kids that want to hear Lil' Wayne and Soulja Boy. Anyone who is interested in hearing EDM has nowhere to go, so there are promoters like me throwing smaller parties on weeknights at the top-40 clubs. In a way, it's not really fair to either side... the people wanting to hear new/underground/non-mainstream music don't really associate these clubs with this type of music, so it's hard to build a following. And, the people who regularly go to these clubs end having the "are you gonna play this shit all night?"/"can you play something with words?" situation.

A lot of the twenty-somethings in my town (like myself) didn't really experience the scene as it used to be, and the thirty-somethings in my town saw it at its "peak" and are now fairly jaded and are almost depressing to talk to, since they all pretty much feel that it can "never be like it used to be". Most of the people who have any pull around here are in the older crowd. They try to bring something back, it doesn't go how they want, so they stop trying.

So, it finally all leads back to something semi-on topic. My struggle has been, as a DJ and a small-time promoter, to find a balance between trying to pull out the older crowd wanting to have somewhere to go again, and to find the younger crowd that actually does want to hear and experience something new. This makes it hard for me as a DJ, when I want to play things like Clovis/Bas/Vana/woscar/etc. play.

For me, it's not a job, it's about the music. I don't have a problem with people who do it just "as a job"... I'm good friends with a number of them. However, I also realize that if I only play entirely for myself, I will never get gigs, I will never get anyone to come out, and nothing will happen around here any time soon. If I want to do it just as a job, I have built up enough contacts and scratched enough backs that I could probably have one... and play hip-hop/top 40. It's just not what I'm interested in, personally. I have a day job.

I'm one of two or three people that's doing anything remotely EDM-related in my town that wasn't part of the old "scene" and, in my opinion, it needs a balance of getting the participation of both crowds to work. But, it needs a "fresh blood" approach. I'm someone who is in the unique position of friends with all of the local veterans, but was not involved with the scene back then. So, I'm giving it my best shot, and playing tracks that I feel are dancey and fun enough to get people to dance and maintain interest without feeling like I'm selling my soul. It's not something that's easy.

On the promotion side of things, I'm trying to bring new things to the city. I've been greatly inspired by the rooftop parties that the Culprit guys have been throwing in L.A. and that's not something that has happened around here, to my knowledge. I'm currently working with someone on getting a good rooftop spot to give this a shot here, with the idea that maybe we can start something where there are no preconceived notions about the venue in particular as to what you "should" be hearing.

Anyways, yikes, sorry for the short novel.

Also, the thing that stuck out to me the most in this thread was:

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Dj'ing is not profitable enough to sell out unless you're at the top.

I really like this statement. Though, bear in mind... not everyone who alters or bends their playlists oustide of what they want to hear right at that moment is doing so for the sake of money.

If your income depends on playing certain types of music then it's not selling out.

It's pretty fucking hard to play what you want on the equipment you want with no money.

I play purely for myself and have a job that pays for all my equipment. But if it was my job I definately would play anything that was required to keep my employer happy.

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Originally posted by chewy dragee I play purely for myself and have a job that pays for all my equipment. But if it was my job I definately would play anything that was required to keep my employer happy.

Pretty much it.

That was a great post David.

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Originally posted by david.michael I've been greatly inspired by the rooftop parties that the Culprit guys have been throwing in L.A. and that's not something that has happened around here, to my knowledge. I'm currently working with someone on getting a good rooftop spot to give this a shot here, with the idea that maybe we can start something where there are no preconceived notions about the venue in particular as to what you "should" be hearing.

I feel exactly the same way here. Those guys have been a great inspiration to me and they made me want to do the same thing they are doing for their scene in LA for the scene here in Guatemala. I have some plans and have made some acquaintances with people that might be able to finance what I want to do, but it's been hard to convince them. These are people that work in companies that represent certain liquor brands like Grey Goose, Bacardi, Absolut, etc. and have big budgets for promoting and events but they either prefer to spend it on tacky events with Salsa, Reggeton, and semi-naked dancing girls or work with some of the existing promoters that pretty much only book trance acts, David Guetta, and the likes.

There is a small joint (and it's really small...100 people, tops) that is filled to the brim every day (they open from Tuesday to Saturday) with local DJs that play EDM ranging from trance to house to techno, albeit within what makes the Beatport Top 10 charts. This shows that people are open-minded about EDM in general and that there is a market waiting for someone to really exploit it. It's just that it's more profitable to book Armin van Buuren for an outdoor party with 5,000 people than to book Droog for a smaller party in a more intimate club.

I want to start playing at that club maybe once or twice a month to put my music out there and get people to know me. That way it would be easier to convince someone to spend the cash on booking acts that otherwise would never be booked to play here. One of the reasons I want to play at that club is because it's a place where DJs are given creative freedom to do whatever the hell they want with their time behind the decks and they play there because they really love what they are doing, not for cash as they are not paid a dime for playing. People who go there are there because they want to have a great time in a place with people they know and dance to music they have probably never heard before. I already have an in, just have to lose the stage fright and tell my friend to get me a gig.

In the end, all I want to achieve is to add something new and fresh to the scene while playing the music I love for people who can appreciate it. If at any point I am confronted with a situation where I am told what to play, I am fully prepared to say "Thanks for the opportunity" and go somewhere else. I'm in this because I love the music, not for money, fame, girls, etc. If someone thinks I should be paid, that's awesome but it's only extra.

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Last edited by woscar on Mar-18-2010 at 16:07

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 WRONG First of all those guys got the power you're referring to by breaking molds not playing what the promoters/clubs tell them to. Aside from that it all comes down to business sense; which 99% of anyone in the industry is clueless about. Maybe you missed my statement that trance is not accepted at all here. So I'm in the same spot you THINK you're in. But difference is i'm smart enough to realize how to fix the problem; while you obviously are much more content playing on the patio and bitching. A few years ago that thought process may have been true but now it's very far from the case. You spin that stuff because you don't know who the talented producers are They listen to Tiesto et all; because he markets his brand better than anyone else to the USA. First of all; being easier doesn't always make it the best option; in fact usually it's the opposite. Second of all it's not a dj's job to decide who gets introduced and who doesn't to edm. Its the job of a dj to play the music they like and believe in to the people who enjoy that music. New listeners will come over time if you had a clue. I started posting sets last year and at first I was only getting 5-6 downloads and now I have been getting between 75-100 per episode of my mix series. You have to understand growth takes time. Playing what everyone else plays makes you a pawn and expendable. But it sounds like you're ok with that. You obviously don't know/understand that I am not just a dj but a top flight producer and also do a good bit of mastering for people as well as my own stuff. But even if I didn't have these other talents your approach is wrong. The best way I can get you to understand is by comparing promoters to women. You can worship them and do everything they want and have a small amount of success or you can be ultra picky and have a great deal of success working with people who want to work with you because they enjoy your music; not because you give a great blowjob and like to eat their ass Or it's because they market themselves better than everyone else. This is a business. Act like it or gtfo.

Answers.

1. Maybe you can Superman, but unfortunately I'm not at that level.

2. It has nothing to do with senses, maybe common sense. If your a newbie at a job, do actually think you can walk up to your boss and ask him for a pay raise. You have to prove to them that you are worthy.

3. Fixing the problem by, oh let me guess, doing your own parties correct. Done that, and I still do that, when my other work (you know my actual career doesn't get in the way. I don't where I play. Hell I'll set in the alley if I have too. Never once did I bitch about a patio. I prefer the outside.

4. I spin everyone's stuff. You have something, send it to me and I'll spin it. He does market himself well, and that is why so many request his stuff.

5. I play what the people want while mixing in off the wall tracks.

6. Producer. Ok now we're getting somewhere. Read one my last posts. I am NOT a producer yet. Therefore without any of my own material I don't have the edge you and other's do.

7. Promoters are more like politicians than women. In the state I'm currently in, I don't have the backing to fire off my mouth to them.

8. Once again, I simply spin.

Wow...

Thanks to Paddy's day I missed this beauty!

You all seem to have calmed down a little but it's good to see a good solid argument which in fairness has actually been pretty tame in terms of abuse.

Glad you lads haven't just stooped to the level of what's sometimes seen in the c0r.

To throw my hat in the ring though. I personally think there are various factors. I am lucky enough to be able to play the music i love (Tech-House, Techno, a sneaky prog track here and there) in the venue i play in. But I also work at a few Silent (headphone) discos where i have played everything from top 40 to old school classics you wouldn't touch with a barge pole!

My point is depending on where and nearly more important who i play in front of I'll change things up. If I'm offered work to play top 40 i'll play top 40. Why, because i need the money and know there are 100 monkeys behind me that will take the job if i don't.

Until i/you make a name for yourself you're pretty restricted on what you can play as let's face it the majority of the public don't have a clue about good EDM. Fact.

If you're an elitest and wont stray from the music you want to play that's completely fine. End of the day though who's going to get paid more money? The top 40 dj will most likely as he's not the one trying to make it big in a niche market.

Anyway i could go on and on.

It's quite simple. We'll always need top 40 dj's. Someone has to do it because it's what the public want. IMO I'm glad someone like TM would be banging out the tunes as from knowing him on here for quite a few years now he seems like a genuinely nice guy. Who cares if he earns his money through playing more mainstream tracks.

I don't, and you shouldn't either.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 W T F Understands his role as a dj? That thought process is what makes it so hard for edm to gain traction globally. It's not the d's role to be a disposable pawn that sucks cock for 200 bucks. Your idea of a dj is extremely flawed and I now understand why currently the market is so overinflated with shat ass untalented people trying to make a quick buck and to get laid.

Wow you sure told me. Here I was thinking that egotistical jerkoff DJ's thinking they were the most important people at the party were the exact opposite of what was needed to help EDM "gain traction globally," but I guess I was wrong. I mean, just look at Portland, the EDM capitol of North America! Clearly we have lots to learn from you guys...

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Originally posted by Sadface Wow you sure told me. Here I was thinking that egotistical jerkoff DJ's thinking they were the most important people at the party were the exact opposite of what was needed to help EDM "gain traction globally," but I guess I was wrong. I mean, just look at Portland, the EDM capitol of North America! Clearly we have lots to learn from you guys...

It's not one or the other. You can play music you like and bend your sound towards yourself without being an egotistical jerkoff. And regardless of what you'd like, a DJ, at a dance party, really is the most important person there. They are in charge of the music and without the music there isn't much else to the party. They can single handedly create a vibe, or kill one.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by bas You know absolutely nothing about the Los Angeles club/dance scene and these posts just reek of it. Passport? I fucking live here you doucher.

fuck

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Originally posted by Clovis It's not one or the other. You can play music you like and bend your sound towards yourself without being an egotistical jerkoff. And regardless of what you'd like, a DJ, at a dance party, really is the most important person there. They are in charge of the music and without the music there isn't much else to the party. They can single handedly create a vibe, or kill one.

You're right about the importance of the DJ. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant to say "egotistical DJ's thinking they're the only person whose taste matters at the party."

Of course you can and should put your own influence on the direction of sound, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the party itself. Mr Fitt seems to think that the party doesn't matter and that its all about what he wants to play, which is obviously a philosophy that I soundly disagree with. My #1 goal when i'm spinning (rarely as that happens these days) is to have people grooving and enjoying themselves. I'm not by myself, i'm with a bunch of other people with their own expectations and its my responsibility to meet them as well as I can. I get WAY more satisfaction from the "great set" comments at the end then from playing some track only I like to an empty or non-moving floor.

As you said, if I didn't want to play a style of music I wouldn't take the gig (never happened cause I like a lot of EDM, but I'd probably refuse to play top 40 lol). I wouldn't show up to the party and start playing something nobody wants to hear.

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Last edited by Sadface on Mar-18-2010 at 18:58