quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Your misunderstanding of "personal choice" and "free will". You're dead wrong, and clearly do not understand how, as I said before, socio-environmental-political forces act upon these kind of people.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not talking about personal choice or free will. I am talking about the way one perceives their own situation. It doesn't seem productive to me for a person to wallow in self-pity and think that everyone else in the world is to blame for where they are. I think this fosters the "I am the victim and my life sucks. Why bother?" mentality, which is not conducive to improving your life. It arguably gives the person in question an excuse to give up, because this attitude supports that they are not in control over their own lives.

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Originally posted by jennypie Assuming the homeless are not mentally ill? Over 70% of homeless people have a mental illness, for one. Do you think these people all have supportive families, networks of friends, MONEY, etc to even begin to know how or where to get help? It's really not as easy as you think. You think medication is free?

You must have missed this:

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Originally posted by RandomGirl Unfortunately however, it seems that a majority of homeless people are conflicted with addiction and mental illnesses, which complicates the entire situation further.

I understand that these people are unique to the topic on hand and I do not think it is easy for them by any means. Once again, I am personally acquainted with people from this group, so I know what it is like for them.

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Originally posted by jennypie Do you have any idea what it's like in a shelter? Overcrowded, full of illness, BUGS, drug users, abuse. Did you know that tuberculosis is making a comeback specifically because of conditions in shelters?

I didn't say anything about the conditions of the shelters. This has nothing to do with the point I am making.

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Originally posted by jennypie Do you have any idea how depressing and humiliating it is for these people? They didn't just wake up one day and decide to join the pity party. Did you know that the number one reason that people end up homeless in Canada is due to lack of affordable housing? Is that a personal responsibility, when there aren't even jobs that pay someone enough to afford a place to live? Do you really think ANYone WANTS to live on the street??

Again, I never said that it wasn't humiliating etc. etc. I am saying that pointing the blame on someone else for where you are in life doesn't get you anywhere. You need to take control of the situation you are in and try and make it better. Pointing the finger at someone in my opinion, only fosters self-pity, the sense of victimization and the desire to give up. I certainly don't think it is a motivator to trying to improve your life.

However, I also acknowledged that most of these people are dealing with mental illnesses and addictions, which I said is a complicated issue and I understand that it is particularly difficult for them. It doesn't change my point however, which is that I do not think that blaming everyone else for how shitty your life is, is a positive thing/therapeutic.

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Originally posted by Theresa You need to take control of the situation you are in and try and make it better. Pointing the finger at someone in my opinion, only fosters self-pity, the sense of victimization and the desire to give up. I certainly don't think it is a motivator to trying to improve your life.

Alright then Theresa, you go down to a homeless shelter and drop your sage advice on 'em.

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Originally posted by jennypie Alright then Theresa, you go down to a homeless shelter and drop your sage advice on 'em.

So effectively you are arguing that you think people who are homeless/mentally ill (and anyone else for that matter), should blame the situation they are in on someone else?

This doesn't infer that they should blame themselves either however. I am just saying that playing the victim card and accepting that there is nothing you can do because you have no control, is not a positive way to think about things, and as such, will not be of any help - especially from a mental perspective.

I never said that once, and I don't know where you're getting it from. I'm not going to sit here and attempt to sum up 3 years of my education for you to help you understand why the homeless are homeless, and why the addicted are addicted.

As I already said numerous times, if you really want to know more read Gabor Mate's book, and do some research on Cathy Crowe. She wrote a book too.

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Originally posted by Spam The entire combined worth of Mackler's teachings?

It's all wrapped up inside the nucleus.

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Theresa, assuming you're going to go into the field of administering therapy to others, might I suggest that you clean out the majority of the skeletons in your own closet (your proclamation that you've already done so aside) so that you're better able to extend genuine compassion toward those you're attempting to assist.

Because right now, you come across as a naïve know-it-all who has little in the way of life experience with which to back up her words. Guaranteed, if you attempt to apply the "c'mon now, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" method across the board, no matter how encouraging and convincing you believe your own words to be, you are going to fail miserably.

So, what lies within neurons again?

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quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I never said that once, and I don't know where you're getting it from.

Well you're saying that I am wrong, which implies that you believe the opposite to what I am arguing. Therefore, it would suggest that

"you are arguing that you think people who are homeless/mentally ill (and anyone else for that matter), should blame the situation they are in on someone else?"

Like I said, I think you are misunderstanding what my point is and are arguing something against me that isn't relevant to my point.

To put it as simply as possible, my point = blaming everyone else for things in your life is not a positive thing.

Do you disagree with this?

Yeah. No person with any proper wisdom and experience with the homeless and/or addicted would ever say that shit. Because it's just plain ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I never said that once, and I don't know where you're getting it from. I'm not going to sit here and attempt to sum up 3 years of my education for you to help you understand why the homeless are homeless, and why the addicted are addicted. As I already said numerous times, if you really want to know more read Gabor Mate's book, and do some research on Cathy Crowe. She wrote a book too.

This proves you are arguing something entirely different to the point I am making. I am not making any commentary on the homeless or the addicted. Since we aren't even talking about the same thing, we can move on and forget it because there seems to be some communication issue.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Theresa, assuming you're going to go into the field of administering therapy to others, might I suggest that you clean out the majority of the skeletons in your own closet (your proclamation that you've already done so aside) so that you're better able to extend genuine compassion toward those you're attempting to assist. Because right now, you come across as a naïve know-it-all who has little in the way of life experience with which to back up her words. Guaranteed, if you attempt to apply the "c'mon now, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" method across the board, no matter how encouraging and convincing you believe your own words to be, you are going to fail miserably. So, what lies within neurons again?

Good lord, still don't get my point.

I am not saying "c'mon now, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" I am saying that sitting there and allowing yourself to say "if my parents hadn't done this or that, I wouldn't be like this" or "the actions of others made me do this" etc. etc. In other words, accepting that you have no control of your own life and the way you perceive things is not a positive thing. It removes the sense that you can have control over your own fate. If you remove that sense, then people have no motivation to do anything for themselves because someone else controls it anyway.

I don't know how I can make myself anymore clear.

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Originally posted by Theresa Well you're saying that I am wrong, which implies that you believe the opposite to what I am arguing. Therefore, it would suggest that "you are arguing that you think people who are homeless/mentally ill (and anyone else for that matter), should blame the situation they are in on someone else?" Like I said, I think you are misunderstanding what my point is and are arguing something against me that isn't relevant to my point. To put it as simply as possible, my point = blaming everyone else for things in your life is not a positive thing. Do you disagree with this?

I'm not even arguing that point. I'm saying that there are many factors that contribute to a person's well-being. And for those who have been dealt a shit hand, it's not as easy as "GET IT TOGETHER AND CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE". It's not about playing the victim or looking to shunt responsibility. What you fail to understand is that the very notion of responsibility and free will is different for everyone - which is especially obvious in populations of low socio-economic status, the homeless, etc.

I don't even know why I'm talking to you. It doesn't seem like you really want to understand the issues here.

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Originally posted by Theresa To put it as simply as possible, my point = blaming everyone else for things in your life is not a positive thing.

How did blaming the individual(s) who abused a person suddenly balloon to "blaming everyone"?

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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa I am not saying "c'mon now, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" I am saying that sitting there and allowing yourself to say "if my parents hadn't done this or that, I wouldn't be like this" or "the actions of others made me do this" etc. etc. In other words, accepting that you have no control of your own life and the way you perceive things is not a positive thing. It removes the sense that you can have control over your own fate. If you remove that sense, then people have no motivation to do anything for themselves because someone else controls it anyway.

You really need to read the books I mentioned. You will look back on your current attitude and think about what a retard you were.