Miss Pie, your sig seems relevant now.

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII removing posessions, and putting them in 'time out' etc? isn't that meant to make them feel bad?

In a way. I'd like to know how that equates to guilt tripping?

Of course they're supposed to "feel bad"; that's the point of negative reinforcement.


But yeah, can you please point me to some research/studies that show the benefits of corporal punishment, or that show it's more effective and beneficial than alternative/non physical forms of punishment?

How bout I show you the back of my hand instead

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie In a way. I'd like to know how that equates to guilt tripping? Of course they're supposed to "feel bad"; that's the point of negative reinforcement. But yeah, can you please point me to some research/studies that show the benefits of corporal punishment, or that show it's more effective and beneficial than alternative/non physical forms of punishment?

lol studies, why do you think i left psych? numbers are nice, but they get in the way of logic, and they don't account for people--

I was saying my opinion is based on my perception, and a strong correlation between corporal punishment becoming a faux pas and a generation of whiny, disrespectful dicks..

no parenting method is flawless: You can say that the alternative to corporal punishment works better WHEN EVERYTHING GOES PERFECTLY, but what if parents are lazy in their punishment on that side?? THATs what causes spoiled ****s imo... kids learn their actions have no consequences, and can get away with anything: If they cry they get cuddled, if they're bad they get put in their room for a bit, oh how horribleh...

what about behavioural psych then? surely kids begin to associate actions they get hit for as bad on a subconscious level, like pavlovian dogs, and will stop doing them..?

___________________
-Everything I Say is a Lie-

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII what if parents are lazy in their punishment on that side?? THATs what causes spoiled ****s imo... kids learn their actions have no consequences, and can get away with anything: If they cry they get cuddled, if they're bad they get put in their room for a bit, oh how horribleh...

That's the fucking point of what I'm saying. Parenting and discipline require time, energy, and patience. I'm not sure why you think I'm advocating lazy parenting or no discipline at all.

I want to take a potato peeler to every inch of her body. Slowly.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow When I was younger I got spanked, the belt, and soap in the mouth (not in the particular order though). The soap was for saying a word I learned in school, belt/spank was for being belligerent and disrespecting my parents. I'm not usually a fan of physical punishment but at a younger age when your reasoning and maturity isn't high sometimes a good whack gets through to you. But I can see as a parent you have to watch out because you could over use it and become reliant on it because it gets results. Used sparingly its useful as a threat, like if you cross a line, you have something waiting in reserve.

I agree with this.

I've seen way too many kids disrespecting parents and teachers! (that was a first when I move to the states.. ). A good spank is needed every once in a while

On a sidenote



Not sure if it's a fake or real.. but I would not mind a couple of times lol.. what would you do to punish this kid adequately?

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie That's the fucking point of what I'm saying. Parenting and discipline require time, energy, and patience. I'm not sure why you think I'm advocating lazy parenting or no discipline at all.

because my point was, if a parent isn't on perfect form, and accurate in their parenting 100% of the time (which is pretty much EVERY parent), your kind of punishment will lead to far worse children than if you give them a little slap on the ass when they're bad...

the point was, not many parents are going to be able to achieve the level of attention required to make respectful kids out of the method you're talking about, whereas hitting transcends all the bullshit. Its something everybody can understand, even kids who (again, not sure what your stance is) ARE psychologically the same as adults, or AREN'T!


simplified: No punishment is perfect, the light-hearted reprimand has far greater scope to go wrong than a gentle, physical punishment.

if you get sloppy with the light-hearted shit then you're going to end up with absolute scum, if you get sloppy with corporal punishment you'll have an over-polite, whipped person who is, at least, a good member of society.

___________________
-Everything I Say is a Lie-

If you can't put the time and effort into parenting with patience, love, and kindness then you shouldn't have kids. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie If you can't put the time and effort into parenting with patience, love, and kindness then you shouldn't have kids. Period.

oh sorry, i forgot we were talking about fantasy worlddddd


there's no perfect parenting, every home, every parent, and every kid is different: No parent is going to slavishly look after their kid, its literally impossible, and also, according to some studies should not be done. Kids have to be independant too. Surely you're not that much of an idealist to claim there's 'good' and 'bad' parenting?

___________________
-Everything I Say is a Lie-

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII oh sorry, i forgot we were talking about fantasy worlddddd

I have kids. My oldest is 4, and all i have to do is look at her the wrong way and she'll be upset. Is it because she's a girl? Doubt it.. i've seen lots of bratty girls. Is it because i gave birth to a perfect child? Probably not.. Is it because i'm a super hero? No. I raised her pretty much the way jenny is talking about. I have always been consistant, firm and reasonable. I have done the incredibly stupid wussy thing, and looked her in the eye and TOLD her what she did wrong, why we don't do it, and what will happen if she does it again. She is a very polite, well rounded, well behaved kid. Often i have to explain to her why other kids at the mall are screaming and kicking on the floor, or punching their mum in the face. I don't expect her to be like this forever, but so far so good.. so really.. i must be doing something right?! Seeing as i am the only one (i know of) that is speaking from direct experience of raising a kid, i agree with what jenny is saying.

Parenting doesn't have to be perfect, but there's no excuse for hitting your fucking children. What a pathetic copout.

And allowing your children to be independent is a completely different aspect of parenting from disciplining them.

Of course there's good and bad parenting, lol.