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quote:

Originally posted by sljiva And that's the funniest thing about this discussions - people like you and Tance-MB who were actually involved in these movements are keeping a low profile and seldom discuss these silly genre divisions, while people like System-J and nefardec are all over the place and act like someone desecrated a sacred part of their non-existent pasts when they see a definition of a genre different from theirs.

that's what we do in the 'music discussion' forum. my age and experience doesn't prevent me from being able to have an opinion on anything. as one of your treasured 'involved' members just attested to - people who were 'involved' can have just as slanted or biased or incorrect observations. anyway anything i've said in this thread it's definitely more useful than standing back and then critiquing others' posts at the end.

ps

is this acid?

1981



how about this

1986

Can we just go back to the threads where we say NO to long paragraphs, and NO to in-depth analysis and debate, and just spam youtube links and drool over how much we love the ch00ns?

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Originally posted by enydo Can we just go back to the threads where we say NO to long paragraphs, and NO to in-depth analysis and debate, and just spam youtube links and drool over how much we love the ch00ns?

hey i don't know about you guys, but i'm drooling over half the youtube vids posted in this thread.

i didn't know that z factor, btw, so thanks for introducing me.

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people like System-J and nefardec are all over the place and act like someone desecrated a sacred part of their non-existent pasts when they see a definition of a genre different from theirs.

Yes but we need people like these guys to discuss these topics, or else we would have a generation of Trance guys starting to broadcast that House originated from the brothels of Calcutta. A lot (most) of the information they are saying is correct. But I do agree with you that genre wars are extremely immature. House vs Trance is the funniest of them.

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that's what we do in the 'music discussion' forum. my age and experience doesn't prevent me from being able to have an opinion on anything.

This is exactly right. In fact, it's not difficult to reverse engineer what happened, or even the entire history of it. You should speak up about these things because there really isn't much academic work on this music, and even if there was, it would probably be a shot in the dark, because it is the underground club scene afterall.

One day I'll post some mixes for you guys, after I buy the CDJ-2000's. Luckily I archived all my vinyl years ago onto DAT. So true on the Tees Happy, there's the Acid sound right there. The Z Factor one I'm talking about is called I'm The DJ. It was on the Dance Party LP and also the yellow label 12". It's pretty terrible but definitely primitive House. The first production I've found from the pioneer Chicago producers was Fast Cars by Z-Factor (1983) on the early Mitchbal label. If you flip it over you even see Kenny Jammin Jason on the remix. This was technically before the On-And-On 12" on Jessay, but Fast Cars was more of a new wave type track...where On-And-On had the House claps in it.

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Can we just go back to the threads where we say NO to long paragraphs, and NO to in-depth analysis and debate

If we did that human beings wouldn't learn. There's nothing wrong with learning something new. If you don't like it, don't read it.

And Nefardec, if you want to go read something hilarious, go onto Wikipedia, and go onto the page for Techno music. If you scroll down to the Chicago section, you see some Techno moron who tried to say that Juan Atkins sold a 303 machine to Frankie, and thus, this was responsible for the creation of House music. I went in and tried to edit it, but some Techno nerd changed it back. I changed it to "Juan Atkins also believes....or something" - so it's only of this guys opinion. Before it said "Many Believe".....as if the 303 Machine CREATED House music, let alone the 303 that Juan sold himself.

Isn't it hilarious? This is the type of crap I'm talking about from these old guys. Just because someones even there from the beginning doesn't mean they are correct. Read the line "House sound developed AS A RESULT". There were many DJs besides Frankie - he was one of many. Did you know Chip E was one of the first House DJs. Notice also he said "This was before the Chicago guys were making records" - what about Vince Lawrence, Jesse Saunders, Mr. Lee, and Duane Bufford and all those guys...he doesn't even mention them...whom were likely all producing before him.

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Originally posted by Bryce Santiago If we did that human beings wouldn't learn. There's nothing wrong with learning something new. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I don't need to learn.

I know EVERYTHING I'll EVER need to know.

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Originally posted by enydo Everything i need to know i learned at the marcy

ftfy

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva And that's the funniest thing about this discussions - people like you and Tance-MB who were actually involved in these movements are keeping a low profile and seldom discuss these silly genre divisions, while people like System-J and nefardec are all over the place and act like someone desecrated a sacred part of their non-existent pasts when they see a definition of a genre different from theirs.

What do you expect to achieve with these constant niggling, passive-aggressive, impotent little posts? Do you think if you keep making them, we'll suddenly change our behaviour? I also find it somewhat baffling, given I've often seen you pompously discussing albums that were released when you were about 10 years old and your albums of the decade list features such hilariously pedantic genre descriptions as "IDM, Drum & Bass, Ambient, Glitch" and "Techno, Deep Techno, Ambient". Oh, and Trance-MB had never heard of Hardfloor. Being there doesn't mean you automatically have anything valuable to add.

Anyway, who gives a fuck that people didn't care in 1987? This thread is happening on a fucking Internet forum in 2011. It's productive to look back at music history once the dust has settled and pick out the details. You've got more insight, more thought and more articles in this thread than ten shitty Youtube post threads. Besides, it should be obvious to everyone that Avana and I will push a point just for the hell of it, because 90% of the people in MD don't have anything to say. We argue about these things because it's good fun. MD is a fucking morgue most of the time. But apparently we shouldn't be discussing old music because we weren't born early enough. Cheers.

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Originally posted by Bryce Santiago I agree on what you refer to here as the 2nd wave, and this 2nd wave you speak of is the Acid House movement. It was the next generation of partiers. According to you though if the 303 was Acid, and it was placed in a House record, 'Acid House' did in fact exist in 1985.

That's fine by me, because it means you're agreeing with my definition.

I'm fully prepared to agree that second wave house music all got lumped in as "Acid house" for a time, but my whole point is about the wider use of "acid" as a term, and with remarkable consistency in the last 25 years it has been used by producers, clubbers, DJs and journalists to refer to the sounds of a tweaked TB-303. I don't think it's necessary to list the thousands of such utterences, because they are omnipresent to the point of self-evidence.


I simply think it's far easier and more helpful to define acid as the tweaked 303, and while you can recognise that the term has had broader connotations at various points of history, that's the core meaning. There are a lot of genre tags and buzzwords that were used broadly and excitably in the early years of a movement, only to get smoothed out in retrospect. Second-wave house encapsulates a lot, including American records and British mutations. Some of those records were very minimalist and foreboding, others were warm and euphoric. I would never stretch "acid" to mean all of it.

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> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
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> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I simply think it's far easier and more helpful to define acid as the tweaked 303, and while you can recognise that the term has had broader connotations at various points of history, that's the core meaning. There are a lot of genre tags and buzzwords that were used broadly and excitably in the early years of a movement, only to get smoothed out in retrospect. Second-wave house encapsulates a lot, including American records and British mutations. Some of those records were very minimalist and foreboding, others were warm and euphoric. I would never stretch "acid" to mean all of it.

I don't really like to stretch things too much, though I have for the sake of discussion in this thread, but there are definitely select records like 'Bang the Box' and 'Preacher Man' and the K&T remix of 'This is Acid' that think are just acid emeritus if not acid proper.

Maybe if 'acid house' were a country, you could say the national dance was 'jacking', the national genre was house, and the national bird was was the TB303, or 'acid' in the national slang.

Last edited by nefardec on May-13-2011 at 20:00

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I simply think it's far easier and more helpful to define acid as the tweaked 303, and while you can recognise that the term has had broader connotations at various points of history, that's the core meaning. There are a lot of genre tags and buzzwords that were used broadly and excitably in the early years of a movement, only to get smoothed out in retrospect. Second-wave house encapsulates a lot, including American records and British mutations. Some of those records were very minimalist and foreboding, others were warm and euphoric. I would never stretch "acid" to mean all of it.

I agree with this, i personally associate acid with a tb303 sound specifically but like i mentioned previously there were instances where it sounded close to sound like acid, like the on the run by pink floyd.

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Last edited by geroin on May-13-2011 at 22:04