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Originally posted by trancedfarmer it would be interesting if iraq were to blatantly bomb our cities, becuase we were trying to defend ourselves from it.

Ummm if I read your quote correctly the whole reason for the attack was due to REPEATED attacks against US planes by Iraqi surface to air batteries. Keep in mind the function of these planes are to enforce a no fly zone to PREVENT iraqi slaughtering of the kurdish people with chemical gas. Now that sounds to me like a purely DEFENSIVE posture doesn't it? Are you advocating that we just fly around without taking any action until somebody gets shot down?Under the UN (not US) resolution, any hostile act against these planes is a violation of the resolution. Keep in mind these aren't only US planes. These are US, British, French, and German planes upholding a UN resolution. With regards to your comment, please tell me of the Iraqi city that initially came under US aggressive attack and responded in defense only.

By the way ... I agree there are many flaws to American media sources but I just love how everybody completely believes media sources of a country where it was reported that a dictator recieved a 100.00000000000000000% reelection vote. It's like abandoning the washington post as being "biased" in favor of the national enquirer. My head is getting sore from being scratched so much.

woohoo, finally made it, hi mine name's itchy, my comment will come shortly, just reloading my brain after some intense reading

more to come from me......

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Originally posted by occrider Ummm if I read your quote correctly the whole reason for the attack was due to REPEATED attacks against US planes by Iraqi surface to air batteries. Keep in mind the function of these planes are to enforce a no fly zone to PREVENT iraqi slaughtering of the kurdish people with chemical gas. Now that sounds to me like a purely DEFENSIVE posture doesn't it? Are you advocating that we just fly around without taking any action until somebody gets shot down?Under the UN (not US) resolution, any hostile act against these planes is a violation of the resolution. Keep in mind these aren't only US planes. These are US, British, French, and German planes upholding a UN resolution. With regards to your comment, please tell me of the Iraqi city that initially came under US aggressive attack and responded in defense only. By the way ... I agree there are many flaws to American media sources but I just love how everybody completely believes media sources of a country where it was reported that a dictator recieved a 100.00000000000000000% reelection vote. It's like abandoning the washington post as being "biased" in favor of the national enquirer. My head is getting sore from being scratched so much.

what right do those planes have to fly over cities threatening people? what a joke.

the iraqi people live in fear of those planes because they have bombed them so many times before.

Last edited by trancedfarmer on Nov-19-2002 at 16:01

Why does history always have to repeat itself. Its obvious that all the US is concerned about is oil. There are other ways to deal with these issues. But then again.. whats america going to do with all those weapons it invested in?

The war on iraq will probably lead to a new bread of terrorist attacks.. face it no one likes to get bullied around. War is War there are no rules. So why play the war game? Isnt there another plausable solution?

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Originally posted by trancedfarmer what right do those planes have to fly over cities threatening people? what a joke. the iraqi people live in fear of those planes because they have bombed them so many times before.

Do you even know why we are enforcing a no fly zone in that region? It's not to restrict trade or to seize oil. The reason why there is a no fly zone above the 36th parallel and below the 32nd is because of the Kurdish population and other ethnic minorities living in the area. If you read your history books you'll find out out that before teh gulf war Hussein sent in planes and missiles with chemical warheads to exterminate the population. Is preventing a massacre reason enough to have those planes up there? I mean really, do you think we get our kicks out of sending pilots up into dangerous zones where they get shot at for no reason? How about spending millions to maintain constant combat patrol in that region?

With regards to your second comment:

A) NOTHING happens to anybody if the Iraqis just sit on their asses and NOT fire on the planes. NOTHING. The planes are on a DEFENSIVE posture. So WHY would they be afraid of getting bombed??? Don't you think logic would tell you by now that if you DO fire on the planes you sure as hell are gonna get bombed???.

B) It's not like civilians are manning these anti-aircraft batteries. These are military personnel under the direct orders of their commanders. The decision to fire on the aircraft are made by military command knowing full well that their will be retaliations. Gimme a break you sound as if everybody on the other side are composed of ignorant, simpletons that can't understand the consequences of their actions, and as such we should treat them as if they were mentally retarded and play nice. They know full well what they're doing, they're fighting a propoganda war and it's sad to say that it appears like they are winning.

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Originally posted by occrider They know full well what they're doing, they're fighting a propoganda war and it's sad to say that it appears like they are winning.

hehe.. yeah right.. i guess you dont get CNN @ your place

I dont want to flame the USA. I live in the USA and all, but I dont like how the USA sometimes buys countries through treaties. Mexico, if Mexico doesnt agree with the USA on the attack with Iraq, it will loose many privileges. Brazil, Colombia, all this countries have been in crisis, whenever they ask for some help, the USA ( president ) asks for something back, but that something is .. alley yourself to ATTACK IRAQ. Or else, we wont help you.
I know this because I have several friends from this 3 countries I've mention, and I have heard all this 3 presidents speak about. Im not too informed about it, but thats the info I know.

Just a thought I had to express. I dont believe the USA is the POLICE of any country just because it wants to, but because theres an interest in between.

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Originally posted by LiquidX I dont want to flame the USA. I live in the USA and all, but I dont like how the USA sometimes buys countries through treaties. Mexico, if Mexico doesnt agree with the USA on the attack with Iraq, it will loose many privileges. Brazil, Colombia, all this countries have been in crisis, whenever they ask for some help, the USA ( president ) asks for something back, but that something is .. alley yourself to ATTACK IRAQ. Or else, we wont help you.

so dont do business...
mexico is not forced to comply to US pressure, if it belives attacking iraq is wrong then by all means it may do so. mexico has to decide if financil help is worth lowering its morals to that of the US. You cant blame the US for that at all, but rather mexico for making that desicion. if i gave you a million dollars to cut off your big toe would you? why blame me for giving you the offer its a free world and i have freedom of speech, all responsibilty is in YOUR hands.

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Originally posted by Izzy so dont do business... mexico is not forced to comply to US pressure, if it belives attacking iraq is wrong then by all means it may do so. mexico has to decide if financil help is worth lowering its morals to that of the US. You cant blame the US for that at all, but rather mexico for making that desicion. if i gave you a million dollars to cut off your big toe would you? why blame me for giving you the offer its a free world and i have freedom of speech, all responsibilty is in YOUR hands.

But I dont believe business should involve war .

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Originally posted by LiquidX But I dont believe business should involve war .

why not, why is war different?
have you heard of conscriptions (i think thats the word). people are payed for their service in the military, this has been done since way back when in the days of the roman empire (and even before). the romans would hire (ie pay) locals (such as britons, after they invaded it) for their service in the roman empire. thats a form of business, a country to person business but whats the difference between that and a country to country business? nothing

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by Izzy why not, why is war different? have you heard of conscriptions (i think thats the word). people are payed for their service in the military, this has been done since way back when in the days of the roman empire (and even before). the romans would hire (ie pay) locals (such as britons, after they invaded it) for their service in the roman empire. thats a form of business, a country to person business but whats the difference between that and a country to country business? nothing

It does when a country like Mexico, that depends greatly on the USA for trading and so on, and when MEXICO dont agree with something, the USA will cut some previleges just because it dont agree on something ... mmm well to one owns opinions, you stand out very good to defend the USA , which is good. :-) but I just dont think its right, I think its more like buying a country to go for something, just because they are forced to ( for the need of money ) .. and not because they want to. Just wrong..

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit hehe.. yeah right.. i guess you dont get CNN @ your place

I don't watch cnn ... I prefer bbs or sky news because I think they are more impartial. But what are you getting at? You don't think Iraq is winning a propoganda war? Hmmm lets see ... the country is run by a corrupt dictatorship ... it disregards treaty obligations ... it has invaded neighboring, peaceful, sovereign, arab nations ... it has used chemical weapons against its own people in an attempt to exterminate an ethnic minority in its own borders ... it exhibits no humanitarian rights or system of civil liberties to speak of.

You know what? I couldn't think of a worse reputation to have. What positive influences or gains can you possibly think of that this country has made on the world? Can you see ANY positive example that this country has made that the rest of the world should imitate? YET despite this ridiculousness, this country has garnered the support of numerous nations across the globe. It has sparked an attitude of sympathy with half the planet. This country has even divided relations among NATO countries that have historically stood by each other through thick and thin. So are they winning the propoganda war? I'm sorry to say it but they are.