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Originally posted by emc^2 In 1968 the LA times ran this article, written by Eric Hoffer, a former longshoreman and non-Jewish American social philosopher. Born in 1902, Hoffer died in 1983, after writing nine books and winning the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Although written 38 years ago, the following is as timely and applicable today as then. by Eric Hoffer May 26, 1968 The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people, and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world. Other nations — when they are defeated — survive and recover, but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews. No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on. There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him. The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we did in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway. The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to American and the West in general. I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us. Source

It's eery how apt this is considering the time in which it was written...

I have no doubt either that the fall of Israel would only concentrate etremists' efforts to the West.
Their fervent lust for death and distruction surely won't be satiated with just Israel, especially when it's already spilling out into the rest of the world.

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Cutting through Israel's propaganda war in the US Four short clips of things Americans never see on TV Exhibit #1 - Journalists who ask questions - I Calling it what it is - terrorism against a civilian population UK correspondant John Snow interviews Israeli ambassador about Israel's attacks against Palestinians. Notice that in the UK, television journalists don't automatically defer to Israeli government represenatives the way US news people do. Why is that? Exhibit #2 - Journalists who ask questions - II For European eyes only CNN broadcasts different news in Europe than it does in the US. Why can't we get reporters like this on CNN-US? Instead we get Wolf Blitzer, a former employee of AIPAC, the Israeli War Party's lobby in the US. Exhibit #3 - US citizens who say "NO!" The US is mortgaging its future to support the criminal activities of a foreign power - why? Do you think all Americans are uninformed and/or unconcerned about America's relationship with Israel? You would if you watch US TV. The reality: Millions of Americans are aware that US foreign policy has been hijacked by the Israeli War Party - and they cannot get their voices heard because of US media news censorship. Exhibit #4 - Daily brutality What goes on in the refugee camps The Israeli military thought this footage of a routine operation in the Occupied Territories had been destroyed. It wasn't and someone with courage ran it on TV - in Israel. Then, thanks to Canada, it was aired in North America. You will never see it on a US network. Being on the receiving end of this kind of brutality is the norm for Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories. Please share this page with your friends and colleagues US citizens need two things they're not getting: 1. Factual reporting on what is going on in the Middle East and 2 Representatives in Congress who represent the interests of the United States, not of the Israeli War Party.

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Originally posted by emc^2 3. Wait until he/she says something along the lines of "because that would lead to additional innocent casualties, additional aggression/violence and escalation of... " 4. As your oponent reaches a middle of the phrase - punch your oponent in the face

It's ok to kill civilians though.

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Originally posted by Shakka Yeah, I sure haven't heard any blacks talking up reparations any time in recent history. Jews in Germany were systematically rounded up for the purpose of extermination, yet I haven't heard any of them out there whining about how the German government owes them billions in reparations. Frankly, why would anyone choose to "laugh" at something like that. What is wrong with you?

they are not whining because they got those reperations you idiot!!!

fucking moron!!

I support Israels efforts...

If the Lebonses in Lebonon are anything like the Lebonese in Sydney, Israel is doing the world a favor.

Vaporise that dump!

Last edited by sasslife on Aug-06-2006 at 12:16

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 It's ok to kill civilians though.

Yeah. It is. Or does Hizzbolah hold a monopoly on killing civilians? Oh, wait - they're defenders. That's right. I forgot. Mind you - Lebanese had no fucking business or beef with Israel for the last 6 years. They were prospering. Now, their Iranian masters wanted to open a second front. Well, look what it got them.

Israel did not go into Lebanon first, they were provoked. And any country that's provoked has absolute right to respond. If militants are cowardly enough to hide among civilians - then they are the ones jeopardizing civilians. As I said earlier - if you got a hostage taker who's killing people and using a human shield - that human shield has as much of a chance of survival as a snowball in hell.

I'm tired of arguing with you lot. You obviously have your beliefs and ideas as to how the warfare has to be conducted. I have a different view. Let's agree to disagree.

Loss of civilian life is unfortunate. But let me ask you a question. If a civilian was in danger of being killed - would you rather it be one of your own or one of your enemy's?

Israel is making sure it's not one of their own. And please, don't confuse the terms here. If Militia establishes itself as a de-facto force that controls the region, then it takes upon itself the obligation to protect the people it has within its realm. What Hizbolah did was declare an open war on Israel. Thereby placing their own citizens in danger. They felt it was worth it, now they're reaping what they sow.

When Germany declared a war, it didn't care about the dangers it would bring to its civilians. Same analogy here - Hizbolah does not care about the people it claims to protect. Israel was no threat to Lebanon and respected the borders and had no incursions into Lebanon prior to kidnapping (and murder of its soldiers - fact many seem to forget there). Any country that didn't respond in the same way either doesn't value lives and safety of their citizens nor deserves a right to exist.

chew on that for a while.

edited for clarity.

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No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Last edited by emc^2 on Aug-06-2006 at 17:49

Wars will continue until hate for your enemy is greater than love for your children.

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No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

i think its the opposite. wars will continue until love of your children is stronger than hate for your enemy. golda mier said that right?

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this is it.

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Originally posted by Haunted i think its the opposite. wars will continue until love of your children is stronger than hate for your enemy. golda mier said that right?

You is correct. It will continue until the enemy loves their children more than they hate yours.

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in the Sudan at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in Indonesia at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in Kasimir at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in Chechnya at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in northwest China at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in Israel at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Thousands of non-Muslims are dead in Arab Middle East at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

And here's the kicker...Pay attention...

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of MUSLIMS are are dead in the world at the hands of radical Islam...no matter how you turn it, they are dead. including a whole bunch of children...

Now who's the problem again?...

So if you were to play the game of "Which country's leadership has killed more?", you'd still be wrong considering most countries around Israel kill their own due to honor killings and criminal punishment (most without trial or women inclusion)...Saddam himself has killed as many as 700,000 of his own people...Israel hasn't killed 700,000 people in its 58 year history!...

But if you want to play with the correct teams (All Jews & JUST Radical Islam), the Jews would have to wipe off about another 5 million to catch up with what radical Islam has done...

JUST IN THE LAST DECADE!...

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Originally posted by sasslife I support Israels efforts... If the Lebonses in Lebonon are anything like the Lebonese in Sydney, Israel is doing the world a favor. Vaporise that dump!

You ignorant bigoted twat.

The Israeli government are absoulute assholes. Fact. You would have thought a race that had been persecuted throughout history would sow some respect, and the US would have the sense not ot give them billions each year towards missiles.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time. There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

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Originally posted by sasslife I support Israels efforts... If the Lebonses in Lebonon are anything like the Lebonese in Sydney, Israel is doing the world a favor. Vaporise that dump!

What a brilliant post . . . not

have you bothered reading any of the posts in this thread or have any idea on what the situation is out there?

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ You ignorant bigoted twat. The Israeli government are absoulute assholes. Fact. You would have thought a race that had been persecuted throughout history would sow some respect, and the US would have the sense not ot give them billions each year towards missiles.

You are an asshole for thinking Israel and Jews around the world should show respect towards other nations who turned their heads as our people were slaughtered in death camps during the Holocaust, pogroms in Eastern Europe, Diaspora, the crusades, and numerous other events that span centuries.

Keep in mind this war was instigated by the kidnapping which was planned nine months ago, and this is like any other act of aggression. When it happens, Israel responds. All Israel wants is peace for itself, so why else do you think they finally pulled out of Gaza? The problem is that Israel is like the little boy who was picked on in elementary school; like him, Israel gets a little hit here and there by fundamentalist groups, and finally retaliates when it must do so for its survival. Unfortunately, most of the world is blind to this notion, and blind to the conflict that has existed in this region for thousands of years.

Unlike the U.S.'s war in Iraq, Israel is fighting for its existence; if it gives up now and commits to a ceasefire it shows weakness on Israel's part, allowing for the neighboring nations led by fundamentalist Muslims to push it around even more. Israel is doing to Hezbollah what the U.S. did to Taliban when 9/11 occurred. Sure there have been civilian casualities, but do you know of ANY recent war, with the technology that exists, where civilians weren't hurt? It's a price to pay, and it's unfortunate Hizballah launches its attacks from areas where there are large civilian populations, even though leaflets were dropped prior to the attacks warning them. Israel changed its battle plans to include more ground troops and less aerial attacks because of this, and it acknowledges the loss of life is tragic. You can't say that for Hizballah, Hamas, or any other terrorist organization that wishes for the destruction of Israel. This is not a war to show the prowess of Israel, this is a war for its survival.