quote:

Originally posted by daffodil http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Aug19.html is anyone else worried this could wind up like vietnam? a larger, more powerful military force just can't win because guerilla warfare is so persistent? there isn't a good way to defeat guerillas without saturating the country and becoming paranoid dictators ourselves, and even then an effective underground can still operate. looking grim...

we all know that the guerilla's arent the majority in iraq and that if america were to leave now they would take control of iraq and create a new minority ruled oppressive regimn, we dont want to have this whole taking over iraq thing become a cycle.

i belive the guerilla movement can be beaten if the occupation is stuck through until the new governing body of iraq can control such insurgencies.

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

The guerilla movement may be quashed in time, but events such as this one will keep occurring with regularity over the next two years. In their rush to push their cause for war through, I get the feeling that the coalition hadn't adequately planned the post-war reconstruction of Iraq, and lack the resources - at present - to deal with these militant groups or to repair essential infrastructure. Expect to hear the word "quagmire" a fair bit in the coming months.

Any, with regards to this bombing, they've confirmed 3 dead and a number still missing including UN representative Sergio Vieira de Mello who is, from what I can gather, the highest ranking UN official in the country at the moment (- see here -). Still no word on a cause or of any groups claiming responsibility.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...ures/index.html

more of these tactics should be used, 0wn4ge

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...ures/index.html more of these tactics should be used, 0wn4ge

Ugh, that's pathetic. We'll see how these tactics "improve troop morale" once the loyalists begin to intensify their attacks on troops in retaliation.

quote:

"The bad guys are going to be upset," Lt. Col. Steve Russell told Reuters. "Which will just make it easier for us to know who they are."

Yep they'll be the ones shooting at the troops and setting off car bombs outside embassies - they are not, as some clearly seem to think, Palestinian journalists holding cameras. The entire thing would be farcical if it wasn't so gravely serious.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Yep they'll be the ones shooting at the troops and setting off car bombs outside embassies - they are not, as some clearly seem to think, Palestinian journalists holding cameras. The entire thing would be farcical if it wasn't so gravely serious.

u.s. troops killed a foreign journalist (i can't remember the nationality, i think german) with a video camera because they thought he was holding a shoulder grenade launcher.

it is gravely serious and the troops are wound up and nervous. they're castigated for thinking attackers are journalists, then excoriated for thinking journalists are attackers.

the article i read was in the print edition of one of the newspapers i get, can't remember which, otherwise i would post a link. anyway, the partner of the journalist who was killed had nasty things to say, essentially accusing troops of knowing he was a journalist and shooting anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by daffodil u.s. troops killed a foreign journalist (i can't remember the nationality, i think german) with a video camera because they thought he was holding a shoulder grenade launcher. it is gravely serious and the troops are wound up and nervous. they're castigated for thinking attackers are journalists, then excoriated for thinking journalists are attackers.

The cameraman was Palestinian:

quote:

Sunday, in an incident that has prompted renewed protests and concern from news operations and journalist groups, a Palestinian cameraman for Reuters TV, Mazen Dana, 43, was shot by a U.S. tank crew as he recorded footage outside a prison near Baghdad.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/column...media-mix_x.htm

And while it's hard to blame the troops for the conditions they've been put into by the politicians, there still needs to be some restraint shown. It seems like everyday there's a new story about the troops opening fire on journalists or protesters. Take a look at this from the article I provided above:

quote:

Dana's camera apparently was mistaken for a grenade launcher, even though he and his crew had been cleared by military officials.

And then read this:

quote:

But journalists who witnessed the incident said the shooting was result of tension affecting US troops in Iran. "We were all there, for at least half an hour. They knew we were journalists. After they shot Mazen, they aimed their guns at us. I don't think it was accident. They are very tense. They are crazy," said Stephan Breitner of France 2 television. [...] "There were many journalists around. They knew we were journalists. This was not an accident," he said. Reuters quoted soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was with Dana, as saying that the US soldiers "saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission. "After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four metres. We were noted and seen clearly," al-Shyoukhi said.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story...7%255E2,00.html

Hard to know what else to say really.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

And back on topic, the death toll from the bombing now stands at 13:

quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A large truck bomb ripped through the U.N. headquarters in Iraq on Tuesday killing at least 13 people and wounding dozens, U.N. officials said. Sergio Vieira de Mello, the U.N. special representative to Iraq, was among those wounded in the blast, which caused one side of the Canal Hotel to collapse -- trapping him and others in the rubble. The bombing continues a recent pattern of attacks on non-military targets in Iraq. Over the weekend, oil, water and electricity lines were attacked by what coalition spokesman called saboteurs. And earlier this month, a car bomb exploded outside the Jordanian Embassy in Baghdad, leaving 10 people dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...main/index.html

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Ugh, that's pathetic. We'll see how these tactics "improve troop morale" once the loyalists begin to intensify their attacks on troops in retaliation.

shows you why i support the US... this is one method in which the US is using non violent means and to which is responded too by violent actions, if anyone is to blame it's not the US. i hate how you guys throw back everything good the US does back at them and say its bad. (and yes regime change in iraq was a good thing)

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

hold on guys taking more thought on this, i dont know why this should be americas problem alone. they could have attacked the american embassy or other america targets but they decided to attack the UN, the UN people, obviously these attacker are agianst what the UN stands for, it was attack not only agianst the US but agianst most all countries of the world. where is the outrage agaisnt these extreme fanatics?

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

shows you why i support the US... this is one method in which the US is using non violent means and to which is responded too by violent actions, if anyone is to blame it's not the US. i hate how you guys throw back everything good the US does back at them and say its bad.

I'm not necessarily saying it's "bad" just that it's more likely to have the opposite effect it was intended to have. If these pictures incite more attacks against troops, then how is it likely to improve morale? It's senseless in the same way that Bush's "bring 'em on" comment was - it's unnecessarily bellicose and I fail to see the point in saying or doing anything that needlessly incites an escalation in violence against US troops.

quote:

hold on guys taking more thought on this, i dont know why this should be americas problem alone. they could have attacked the american embassy or other america targets but they decided to attack the UN, the UN people, obviously these attacker are agianst what the UN stands for, it was attack not only agianst the US but agianst most all countries of the world. where is the outrage agaisnt these extreme fanatics?

I would imagine (though I could be wrong) that the UN was targetted as it was seen as aiding the US in its "occupation" of Iraq. I don't believe that UN staff and embassies were ever targetted or under any threat in Iraq prior to the occupation.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

Izzy has a good point.. You guys do realize it was the UN HQ that was blown to pieces.. not the US one.. Understand this point one would logically ony critize the UN about this..

Afterall lets say the French or Russian embassie was blown to bits in Iraq.. would you condemn the US for that to? For god sake take some responsibility on your own. After all the US did not want the UN in Iraq (maybe for partial fear of exactly what happened) but regardless the UN and the rest of the world wanted in... but they still won't take the responsibility for it.

It is not the US's fault the UN can't defend their own HQ... I mean obviously the US HQ was not blown up, I believe because it was heavely defended and secured.

You guys just don't get it do you. These same fanatics that were against the War, that are against the US, are also against the non-muslim world. When will you guys wake up and smell the burning bodies?