It won't last.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

It's ok since noone is forcing them to do so, while at the same time it is decreasing the amount of unwanted children.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 It's ok since noone is forcing them to do so, while at the same time it is decreasing the amount of unwanted children.

You're using too much practical reasoning my friend

My only apprehension is that this is somewhat similar to selling your organs for cash ...

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Originally posted by occrider You're using too much practical reasoning my friend My only apprehension is that this is somewhat similar to selling your organs for cash ...

Well, in theory, I don't think selling organs for cash is such a horrible thing. Infact, I think it is better for a person who finds himself in a desperate situation to be able to sell part of his body in order to make a new start than to suffer for the rest of his life. Besides, it would save many lives.

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Originally posted by Vesa My opinion of this type of genetical "theories" is that: 1) big capitalists fuck up society to get even more money 2) then they pretend they have money because they are genetically superior 3) then they make some poor people (alcohol and drug addicts in this case) or a minority (Jews in Nazi Germany) the scapecoats by claiming those groups are genetically defective Of course, sterilization of drug and alcohol addicts is just another BS program to take away some poor women's value as human beings. If society was more just, very few people with addiction genes would become addicts. Education and distribution of resources would bring about a better society with less addiction, even though I'm unfortunately sure that such a just society will never happen. However, let's assume for a minute that rich people had exceptional genetics. Then a better solution in the same mindset might be to sterilize big capitalists. Then much fewer people in society would have an excessive amount of resources. The saved surplus of resources would be given to people with addiction genes, enabling them to live a very good life which wouldn't be worth risking with drug and alcohol use. Even though addiction has a genetical basis, it usually starts when people do not have their basic needs met, and are consequently careless about alcohol use or drug use.

Ummm I don't think this program is set up to weed out "inferior genes." The program is set up to provide sterilization and long term birth control methods to drug addicts who would otherwise be incapable and irresponsible in raising children.

And I assure you, most addicts probably do not perform cost-benefit analyses of their actions.

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quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, in theory, I don't think selling organs for cash is such a horrible thing. Infact, I think it is better for a person who finds himself in a desperate situation to be able to sell part of his body in order to make a new start than to suffer for the rest of his life. Besides, it would save many lives.

Well I am against selling organs for cash since you are essentially preying on the poor. It's kind of like bum fights ... do you think those bums like to fight each other? No they do it because they are desperate and they need money. Does it make it 'ok' that they agreed to do it and are getting money out of it? I don't think so. I would be inclined to think of this program in the same way, however, they require proof that the individual has current drug problems, and therefore likely incapable in any short term capacity of caring for a child.

Keep in mind this isn't an official government agency. It's a non-profit organization.

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I am also against organ selling if a society has a good welfare program that helps the poor. But in that case the poor won't be needing to sell their organs anyway. I'm just saying that if there's a choice between good welfare program and organ selling I'm all for welfare, but if the choice is between organ selling and nothing, then it is better to have anything than nothing.

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Originally posted by Vesa Well, I admit that one can't reliably tell if this particular program is meant to accomplish genetical extinction or to benevolently ensure birth control for people who otherwise couldn't use reliable birth control. In the past, there have been both types of sterilization programs. From the criticism mentioned in the article, I assumed automatically that this program would be genetically motivated, but without knowledge of the program background, I admit that one shouldn't prejudge it. Does anyone have more info about the political groups funding the project? Of course, if the program is only benevolent birth control, my opinion would be completely different because I believe that any person who can't successfully raise children should use reliable birth control. On second thoughts, sterilization should be suggested only after they have had a couple of kids. If we sterilize all potential bad parents before their first kid, society might end up with very few kids born And they would become bitter in later life if they have never had a single kid. If a person can't raise kids, it's IMO the responsibility of society to support her, so that she'll get her act together. Only if this is not an option, then should sterilization be suggested as the last resort.

Well based upon the article, it's not funded by any political organizations. It's been funded by Dr. Laura Shlessinger, some rich guy, some notable black writers, the rest from individuals. Since it's a small non-profit organization and not a government agency, and since they've only managed to sterilize or provide long term contraceptives to about 1000 chicks, one can safely assume that they aren't hell bent on genetic extincion ...

They're probably just trying to stop crack babies from being born and are using human greed as a means to that end.

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Sterilization is only one of the options. The program pays woman if they get Tubal Sterlization (permenant), Norplant hormones (5 years), Depo-Provera injections (12 weeks), or IUDs (removed by clinic). So in retrospect, I guess I'm very for the program.

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Originally posted by Vesa Norplant hormones to prevent pregnancy for five years sound like a good option if the addict is in her early 20s. She would then have a reason to straighten up, so that she'll be able to raise a baby after the Norplant (in contrast to sterilization which gives her little reason to live on). In fact, Norplant sounds so ideal that I wonder why the project supports permanent sterilization at all Except if the project has an agenda of genetical extinction

Upon further research, the bbc article is very inflammatory and misleading. The program doesn't advocate sterilization as a means alone to get $200. The program doesn't even administer the birth control methods. Those interested in money contact the program. The individual then goes to an independant doctor of THEIR choosing (program has no role in the process). Said individual then provides proof to clinic that they received one of these contraceptive methods:

Depo Provera -paid over the period of one year
IUD
Norplant (5 year contraceptive)
Tubal Ligation
Vasectomy

Once proof is provided they collect money. So it's the PATIENT'S choosing to get sterilization. So once again, I'm for the program.

http://cashforbirthcontrol.com/program/index.html

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It does seem to be an interesting program, at least on the surface.

It sounds more like it is just a program to help women who don't want to become pregnant get a form of long term birth control. I think the part that makes it seem on first glance of the BBC article to be a Eugenics program is the small group of people who qualify for the program and the fact that permanent sterilization is an option.

MrS

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