Just curious how many of you have read her works and if anyone has any thoughts on her philosophy in general. Personally I'm a huge fan and think she does a brilliant job of tearing apart and shooting holes in the altruist beliefs that a lot of liberals (to be fair, some conservatives for that matter) cling to. I think you have to read Rand to fully understand and appreciate Rand.
Right now I'm about halfway through Atlas Shrugged and have read Fountainhead as well as her general Philosophy: Who Needs It. She really makes some great points about human existence. I have yet to read Anthem or We the Living, but I know that Anthem can be read in a day or two while Atlas has taken me about a month so far. Fountainhead was simply awesome. Anyway, just curious what you all thought if you were familliar with the subject matter.
-Shakka
Sep-08-2003 18:03
Renegade
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Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Personally, from what I understand of the philosophy of objectivism, it's hard to take it all seriously. It strikes me as a thinly veiled defense of laissez-faire capitalism based on pretty wishy-washy psuedo-philosophical principles. I think there's a future for rightist libertarian philosophy (one of the least explored areas of political thought) but Rand's objectivism is just mean-spirited and consciously tries too hard to become the dialectical antithesis of Marxism (rationalism vs materialism, collectivism vs individualism, socialism vs capitalism etc) which was obviously becoming increasingly prevalent in Rand's day.
I'm prepared to withhold judgement until I read Atlas Shrugged (which I will do one of these days) but based on objectivism as a philosophy alone (so not including the literary side) I'd have to say I disagree with it.
Why should I opt for my own good as opposed to society's good? Rand’s philosophy of objectivism asserts the moral right and duty of the individual to live for him or herself and not be the subject to others’ will or purposes. Simply put, selfishness is a virtue. I don’t buy into this because I don’t believe that a society based on greed, self-indulgence and egocentrism is necessarily healthy. Just look at what is happening with our capitalistic society. It’s also contradictory of Rand to share her own philosophical ideas, since the ethical egoist can't be trusted when offering moral advice to others. If the egoistic ethic is universalized, then it seems that this would go against the egoist's own selfish ends. Furthermore, even if pursing selfish ends is legitimate, it seems hard to believe that this is the only moral virtue. That is, one's good may be an object to pursue, but it need not be the only one.
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Sep-08-2003 23:57
Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Those are about the responses I was expecting to get. I highly recommend you read some of the literature and understand the 'why' of her arguments instead of making assumptions based on hearsay. I must admit it's an interesting battle to watch in society.
Renegade: I'd recommend starting with Fountainhead before undertaking something like Atlas--you won't fully appreciate it/be able to digest it otherwise. Or if you want a good short blurb that is my current favorite literary passage, I highly recommend reading Roark's self-defense of the destruction of his own property towards the end of Fountainhead. A nice, concise 5 pager that is guaranteed to impress. Simply beautiful.
Peaceful Warrior: I think you have some misconceptions based on what you've heard others say about her. Her philosophy is not one I'd ever expect to see taught by any educational institution as they are typically liberal hotbeds and her ideals certainly are not mainstream university philosophy. Furthermore, I think you are confusing 'selfish' in the general social sense with 'selfish' the way Rand means it. But I digress.
No matter what your own personal philosophy is, it's interesting to read some of her non-fiction work and watch her absolutely tear apart a lot of 'altruistic' philosophers a la Nietzche and Kant, point by point, in an indisputable manner. It can be a big pill to swallow, but damn liberating at the same time.
Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting topic that diverts from the flaming norm of israeli/palestinian BS. I may experiment a bit in the future to see what kind of reactions I get. We shall see...
Sep-09-2003 15:15
torontotrance
I hath returned
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
I don't like her ideals and everything and the thoughts that she was trying to get across. The fountainhead is a good book but I knew when I read the book that it had hidden meaning and others things.
Sep-09-2003 21:19
Mikado
Supreme tranceaddict
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Fort Mcmurray
quote:
Originally posted by torontotrance
I don't like her ideals and everything and the thoughts that she was trying to get across. The fountainhead is a good book but I knew when I read the book that it had hidden meaning and others things.
Can u explain or is it a big top secret?
Sep-10-2003 12:41
Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
I think he's just relating the fact that the story is a work of fiction, but the underlying philosophies and actions of the characters are a show of her philosophy at work. Look below the surface and understand the reasons for people's actions. I don't think it's a hidden meaning per se, just something to give some deeper thought to.
