http://www.freevibe.com/drug_facts/...e.asp#badhealth

drugs = terrorism, just ask rush

Just eat some space cakes or brownies, no carcinogens there.

That would be much better for you than the (legal) poisons like alcohol or cigarettes.

It's really illegal because the paper, timber, alcohol and tobacco industries have been bribing the right people. That's just my opinion, of course.

On the one hand it should be an individual's choice to do what he likes with his body, on the other hand, if the health-effects of long-term use make you a drain on the public health system, then it ceases to be an issue of "individual" choice and becomes an issue of "societal" choice.

The solution?

Do with marijuana as we do with cigerettes and alcohol: legalise it, then tax the buggery out of it. As with cigarrette and alcohol related diseases, if anyone runs into long term health trouble as a result of their use, they would have already paid enough in the taxes imposed on these products to ensure that their health-care isn't a negative strain on the public-health system. Whatever their health-care costs, they've already paid for it through tax. So, through the legalisation of marijuana, we ensure that the individual has the right to indulge himself as he wishes, while ensuring society isn't negatively affected (as they are now) by such use.

Can I get some agreement from the libertarians here?

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Originally posted by Renegade On the one hand it should be an individual's choice to do what he likes with his body, on the other hand, if the health-effects of long-term use make you a drain on the public health system, then it ceases to be an issue of "individual" choice and becomes an issue of "societal" choice. The solution? Do with marijuana as we do with cigerettes and alcohol: legalise it, then tax the buggery out of it. As with cigarrette and alcohol related diseases, if anyone runs into long term health trouble as a result of their use, they would have already paid enough in the taxes imposed on these products to ensure that their health-care isn't a negative strain on the public-health system. Whatever their health-care costs, they've already paid for it through tax. So, through the legalisation of marijuana, we ensure that the individual has the right to indulge himself as he wishes, while ensuring society isn't negatively affected (as they are now) by such use. Can I get some agreement from the libertarians here?

First of all, freevibe is a fucking joke. Almost 2 years ago, me and loads of people from the cannabis.com message boards sent in loads of bs stories about how we smoked a joint and it made us get rabies and all sorts of insane shit like that, and they actually put them up on their site. We made it as obvious as possible that it was a piss take, but they still got posted.
Secondly, taxing the fuck out of a drug would be stupid. If they tax it too much like they do with alcohol and tobacco, that will ensure there is a black market because dealers will still be able to make enough of a profit to make dealing worthwhile.
Thirdly, there would be FAR LESS healthcare costs than there are now if all drugs were legal.

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq First of all, freevibe is a fucking joke. Almost 2 years ago, me and loads of people from the cannabis.com message boards sent in loads of bs stories about how we smoked a joint and it made us get rabies and all sorts of insane shit like that, and they actually put them up on their site. We made it as obvious as possible that it was a piss take, but they still got posted.

What is "freevibe" and what does it have to do with what I said?

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Secondly, taxing the fuck out of a drug would be stupid. If they tax it too much like they do with alcohol and tobacco, that will ensure there is a black market because dealers will still be able to make enough of a profit to make dealing worthwhile.

Obviously you don't want to tax it so ridiculously high that you keep the black-market in the frame, but any mass-produced product could still be taxed at 100% and still be cheaper than anything you're likely to buy off the street.

The guarantee of "quality control" is another reason why - even with high taxation - you'd be able to keep the street-dealers out of the market in the event of legalisation.

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Thirdly, there would be FAR LESS healthcare costs than there are now if all drugs were legal.

I agree entirely. The dangers of drug-use aren't necessarily inherent in the drug, but pertain more to its purity and ignorance about how it should be used and in what doses. All I'm saying is that if that if someone wants to engage in an activity that may lead to long term health problems (and this extends beyond drug-use) they should expect this activity to be taxed, so that they aren't a burden on the tax-paying public.

Also, I'm on your side (pretty much) so what's with the hostility?

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

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Originally posted by Renegade What is "freevibe" and what does it have to do with what I said?

Freevibe is the american governments prohibitionist site that hardstyle copied his post from

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Obviously you don't want to tax it so ridiculously high that you keep the black-market in the frame, but any mass-produced product could still be taxed at 100% and still be cheaper than anything you're likely to buy off the street. The guarantee of "quality control" is another reason why - even with high taxation - you'd be able to keep the street-dealers out of the market in the event of legalisation.

Here, 20 cigarettes costs up to around £4.50 which is far too high, so theres a pretty big black market here. Considering all the money that would be saved from the end of the war on (some) drugs, i dont see the need for much or any taxation at all. Also, governments would be saving money that would otherwise be spent treating health problems from the use of dirty drugs too.

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I agree entirely. The dangers of drug-use aren't necessarily inherent in the drug, but pertain more to its purity and ignorance about how it should be used and in what doses. All I'm saying is that if that if someone wants to engage in an activity that may lead to long term health problems (and this extends beyond drug-use) they should expect this activity to be taxed, so that they aren't a burden on the tax-paying public.

I dont fully agree with that. Almost everything u do involves risks. If u play football/cross the road/walk down the stairs etc u could paralyse urself.
The governments would already be saving many times the amount of money it would cost to cover any health problems.

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Also, I'm on your side (pretty much) so what's with the hostility?

I wasnt trying to be hostile towards u personally, sorry if it sounded like that

I think people should be allowed to do with themselves what they please, and only should a second or third party step in when said person endangers persons other than himself.

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Originally posted by LAYLA-KEKET I think people should be allowed to do with themselves what they please, and only should a second or third party step in when said person endangers persons other than himself.

I almost agree. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as it doesnt negativly impact the rest of society. I.e you can do all the heroin you want so long as you don't need to start robbing people to get a fix.

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Originally posted by hardstyle doi you agree with this ? [quote]You might be surprised to learn that marijuana contains the same cancer-causing chemicals as tobacco, and at higher concentrations. Smoking five joints a week is the equivalent of smoking an entire pack of cigarettes every day which, even in the short term, leads to lung and respiratory problems-wheezing, frequent chest colds and-yick!-a nasty phlegmmy cough. Long-term use increases the chances of tissue damage and lung cancer, and also causes changes in the brain similar to those caused by long-term use of cocaine and heroin.

Well, smoking a joint does make my throat sore, but it's far from being the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes.

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Several studies have linked marijuana use with poor school performance. It's harder to concentrate and retain information when you've been using pot, and every day of school is important to teens in their peak learning years. It should be no surprise that the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse found teens with a "D" average or below more than four times as likely to have used marijuana in the last year than those with an "A" average. You're more likely to drop out - or get kicked out - of school, or out of sports or other activities if you smoke marijuana.

Here I believe it's a mix-up between cause and effect. It's not that the good students start smoking pot and become bad students. It's that the bad students and scumbags usually have a lot of time on their hands to experiment with all sorts of drugs.

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The likelihood of a car crash is increased by some of the immediate effects of smoking pot-longer reaction time, poor physical coordination, and impaired concentration. Marijuana also makes you more likely to do something stupid you might regret. Pot-smoking has been linked with risky sexual behaviors that increase the likelihood of sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies.

Well, I guess driving while you're high isn't the brightest idea, but aside from that it's a bit exaggerated.

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We're all anxious enough about how we look without having to worry about the stained fingertips and teeth, stinking breath, and bloodshot eyes that come with smoking pot. People who smoke dope can look a little-well, skeazy. They might lose interest in their appearance. They can also get the munchies when they're high-and it's not exactly health food they binge on. They don't call that tire-shaped ring of flab around the middle of a pothead the "stoner's spare" for nothing. Marijuana use by teens-like the use of many other drugs-can make it harder to keep good relationships with your friends and family. Marijuana users can become loners or hang out with people who may not be a good influence, which means that if you already have good friends and a supportive family, you can grow apart from them or lose their trust. Smoking dope can lead to anxiety, panic attacks, depression, and paranoia-and those problems don't improve over time. And don't you know someone who can't do anything without getting high? That's because they're addicted. Sixty percent of teenagers in drug treatment programs are there because of marijuana.

Heh, here they're really could have used some better and more realistic arguments.

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According to the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are almost four times as likely to commit a violent act-against either people or property-than those who don't. They're five times as likely to steal. So smoking marijuana can get you in trouble with the law and result in later problems like not being able to get a scholarship or a job.

Correlation does not imply causation.

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The people who profit from the $400 billion global drug business-and yes, marijuana is a big part of this business-are creep factor nine. They're criminals. If you're smoking pot, you could be the end-user of a product that may have been sold to help fund these people.

Well, this I generally do agree with.

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Bah ... legalize it and tax it. Same as cigarrettes. It's win win for everyone. A) People are happier. B) Tobacco industry is happier. C) The DEA budget is happier. So who's to lose except for the religious fundies? And they're losers from the get go soooo ...

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Retro ...