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xKaoSx
I need more cow bell !!



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Trust, Don't Verify

Trust, Don't Verify
Bush's incredible definition of credibility.
By William Saletan (slate.msn.com)
Posted Wednesday, April 14, 2004, at 3:27 AM PT


One thing is for certain, though, about me, and the world has learned this: When I say something, I mean it. And the credibility of the United States is incredibly important for keeping world peace and freedom.

That's the summation President Bush delivered as he wrapped up his press conference Tuesday night. It's the message he emphasized throughout: Our commitment. Our pledge. Our word. My conviction. Given the stakes in Iraq and the war against terrorism, it would be petty to poke fun at Bush for calling credibility "incredibly important." His routine misuse of the word "incredible," while illiterate, is harmless. His misunderstanding of the word "credible," however, isn't harmless. It's catastrophic.

To Bush, credibility means that you keep saying today what you said yesterday, and that you do today what you promised yesterday. "A free Iraq will confirm to a watching world that America's word, once given, can be relied upon," he argued Tuesday night. When the situation is clear and requires pure courage, this steadfastness is Bush's most useful trait. But when the situation is unclear, Bush's notion of credibility turns out to be dangerously unhinged. The only words and deeds that have to match are his. No correspondence to reality is required. Bush can say today what he said yesterday, and do today what he promised yesterday, even if nothing he believes about the rest of the world is true.

Outside Bush's head, his statements keep crashing into reality. Tuesday night, ABC's Terry Moran reminded him, "Mr. President, before the war, you and members of your administration made several claims about Iraq: that U.S. troops would be greeted as liberators with sweets and flowers; that Iraqi oil revenue would pay for most of the reconstruction; and that Iraq not only had weapons of mass destruction but, as Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said, 'We know where they are.' How do you explain to Americans how you got that so wrong?"

Inside Bush's head, however, all is peaceful. "The oil revenues, they're bigger than we thought they would be," Bush boasted to Moran, evidently unaware that this heightened the mystery of why the revenues weren't covering the reconstruction. As to the WMD, Bush said the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq had confirmed that Iraq was "hiding things. A country that hides something is a country that is afraid of getting caught." See the logic? A country that hides something must be afraid of getting caught, and a country afraid of getting caught must be hiding something. Each statement validates the other, sparing Bush the need to find the WMD.

Bush does occasionally cite other people's statements to support his credibility. Saddam Hussein "was a threat to the region. He was a threat to the United States," Bush told Moran. "That's … the assessment that Congress made from the intelligence. That's the exact same assessment that the United Nations Security Council made with the intelligence." Actually, the Security Council didn't say Iraq was a threat to the United States, but never mind. The more fundamental problem with Bush's appeal to prewar assessments by Congress and the Security Council is that these assessments weren't reality. They were attempts—not even independent attempts, since the administration heavily lobbied both bodies--to approximate reality. When they turned out not to match reality, members of Congress (including Republicans) and the Security Council (including U.S. allies) repudiated them.

Not Bush. He's impervious to evidence. "I look forward to hearing the truth as to exactly where [the WMD] are," he told Time's John Dickerson at the press conference. A year after Saddam's ouster and four months after Saddam's capture, Bush continued to insist that "people who should know about weapons" are still "worried about getting killed, and therefore they're not going to talk … We'll find out the truth about the weapons at some point." You can agree or disagree with this theory. But you can't falsify it.

Bush doesn't see the problem. He's too preoccupied with self-consistency to notice whether he's consistent with anything else. "I thought it was important for the United Nations Security Council that when it says something, it means something," he told Moran. "The United Nations passed a Security Council resolution unanimously that said, 'Disarm or face serious consequences.' And [Saddam] refused to disarm." Never mind that the Security Council didn't see what Bush saw in terms of Iraqi disarmament and didn't mean what Bush meant in terms of serious consequences. Never mind that this difference in perception was so vast that Bush ducked a second Security Council vote on a use-of-force resolution. What's important is that when the Security Council says something, it must mean something, even if the something the Council said isn't the something Bush meant.

As Tuesday night's questions turned to the 9/11 investigation, Bush retreated again to the incontrovertible truths in his head. "There was nobody in our government, at least, and I don't think [in] the prior government, that could envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale," he told NBC's David Gregory. Never mind that somebody who had worked in Bush's administration and the prior administration—namely, counterterrorism coordinator Richard Clarke—had raised precisely this concern about the 1996 Olympics. Never mind that the president's daily intelligence brief on Aug. 6, 2001—titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in U.S."--had warned Bush, "FBI information since [1998] indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York." These were external phenomena and therefore irrelevant. What mattered was that Bush couldn't "envision" the scenario.

Three times, Bush repeated the answer he gave to Edwin Chen of the Los Angeles Times: "Had there been a threat that required action by anybody in the government, I would have dealt with it." Outside Bush's head, the statement was patently false: The 9/11 threat required action, and Bush failed to deal with it. But inside Bush's head, the statement was tautological: If there were a threat that required action, Bush would have dealt with it; Bush didn't deal with it; therefore, there was no threat that required action. The third time Bush repeated this answer--in response to a question about whether he owed an "apology to the American people for failing them prior to 9/11"--he added, "The person responsible for the attacks was Osama Bin Laden." This is how Bush's mind works: Only a bad person can bear responsibility for a bad thing. I am a good person. Therefore, I bear no responsibility.

On 9/11, as on WMD, Bush mistakes affirmation for verification, description for reality, and words for deeds. "I was dealing with terrorism a lot as the president when George Tenet came in to brief me," he told Chen. "I wanted Tenet in the Oval Office all the time. And we had briefings about terrorist threats." This was Bush's notion of dealing with terrorism: being briefed by the CIA director. The world that mattered was the Oval Office.

Did the briefings lead to action outside the office? No, because there was no "threat that required action." What about the Aug. 6 brief? "I asked for the briefing," Bush told Chen. "And that's what triggered the [Aug. 6] report." Tuesday's Washington Post tells a different story: "According to senior intelligence officials familiar with the document, work on it began at the end of July, at the initiative of the CIA analyst [who] wanted to raise the issue" of Bin Laden's threat to the U.S. mainland. But Bush can't believe that someone outside his head was trying to tell him something. He's certain he "triggered" the brief. That's why, as he explained to Chen, he "didn't think there was anything new" in it: He assumed it was his idea. He doesn't understand that the point of a briefing is to be told something you hadn't already thought of.

This explains the most amazing part of Bush's answer to Chen: "What was interesting in [the brief] was that there was a report that the FBI was conducting field investigations. And that was good news, that they were doing their job." Here is a president who reads that the FBI has found "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijacking" and concludes that all is well because the FBI is "investigating" such activity. Why does Bush make this mistake? Because he doesn't understand that the "suspicious activity" is the subject of the brief. He thinks the "investigations" are the subject. He thinks he's being told about his version of reality—the world inside his administration—not the world of plots beyond his awareness.

How does Bush square his obtuseness to the threat from Bin Laden with his obtuseness to the absence of a threat from Saddam? "After 9/11, the world changed for me," he explained Tuesday night. That's Bush in a nutshell: The world changed for him. Out went the assumption of safety, and in came the assumption of peril. In the real world, Bin Laden was still a religious fanatic with global reach, and Saddam was still a secular tyrant boxed in by sanctions and no-fly zones. But in Bush's head, everything changed.

To many Americans, the gap between Bush's statements about the months before 9/11, on the one hand, and the emerging evidence about those months, on the other, raises doubts about the credibility of their government. To other nations, the gap between Bush's statements about Iraqi weapons, on the one hand, and the emerging evidence about those weapons, on the other, has become the central reason to distrust the United States in other matters of enormous consequence, such as North Korea's nuclear program.

To all of this, however, Bush is blind. He doesn't measure his version of the world against anybody else's. He measures his version against itself. He says the same thing today that he said yesterday. That's why, when he was asked Tuesday whether he felt any responsibility for failing to stop the 9/11 plot, he kept shrugging that "the country"—not the president--wasn't on the lookout. It's also why, when he was asked to name his biggest mistake since 9/11, he insisted, "Even knowing what I know today about the stockpiles of weapons [not found in Iraq], I still would've called upon the world to deal with Saddam Hussein." Bush believes now what he believed then. Incredible, but true.


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Old Post Apr-14-2004 13:52  United States
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

this is ridicilous.

Like him or hate him Bush does what he says.

He says hes going into Iraq, he goes. He says he'll go after Al Qaeda, he goes after Al Qaeda.

Theres no backing down, there is no crowd pleasing to achieve these goals, and there are no apologizes for thinking this way.



Don't know why you guys find this so hard to understand.

I can't see how the WMD destruction issue makes him any less credible as the article tries to imply.

When he said "One thing is for certain, though, about me, and the world has learned this: When I say something, I mean it. And the credibility of the United States is incredibly important for keeping world peace and freedom."

He doesn't mean that the US has the capability to know the truth on every single person across the world credible - it means that when the US says it will do something it does it.

And thats a very, very, very important thing to have.

He is saying my words = my actions. Previously around the world the USA was viewed with the understanding that its words did not always equal its actions. Bush changed that, and much of the world pandemonium is a result of it.


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Old Post Apr-14-2004 15:46  Israel
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
this is ridicilous.

Like him or hate him Bush does what he says.

He says hes going into Iraq, he goes. He says he'll go after Al Qaeda, he goes after Al Qaeda.

Theres no backing down, there is no crowd pleasing to achieve these goals, and there are no apologizes for thinking this way.



Don't know why you guys find this so hard to understand.


There should be an apology when you mislead individuals to the brink of disaster, should you not?

I think what the author is saying, and what many have a problem with Bush about is that it's not very appealing to be stubborn and closed-minded at all costs. Situations change, and it's important to be flexible and open to those changes. This has not been the appearance of Bush. I can appreciate a solid stance on issues as much as the next voter, but I also appreciate flexibility and the desire to always entertain and even embrace new ideas that might be for the better. This is certainly not what Bush gives us.

I'm speaking in generalities, of course, but that is certainly the impression I got out of his press conference last night.



quote:
I can't see how the WMD destruction issue makes him any less credible as the article tries to imply.

When he said "One thing is for certain, though, about me, and the world has learned this: When I say something, I mean it. And the credibility of the United States is incredibly important for keeping world peace and freedom."

He doesn't mean that the US has the capability to know the truth on every single person across the world credible - it means that when the US says it will do something it does it.

And thats a very, very, very important thing to have.

He is saying my words = my actions. Previously around the world the USA was viewed with the understanding that its words did not always equal its actions. Bush changed that, and much of the world pandemonium is a result of it.


Bush didn't have to change anything. I think the worldview of the USA was already on descent footing as it was. All Bush did was create an ultra-extremist hard-headed stance, and an unwillingness to listen to alternative viewpoints.

As for the WMD issue, surely you jest? We invaded because there was supposedly a WMD threat, right? We didn't have to invade, and we could have allowed UN inspections to continue as scheduled, right? We could have exausted all other possibilities, including more negotiations, but we didn't, right? We could have held other countries accountable for their failures to follow UN resolution, just like Iraq, but we haven't, right? Bush and his Admin. could have had verified solid evidence of WMD, and could have listened more carefully to conflicting reports (like the Niger uranium reports, aluminum tubes for centrifuges, unmanned airplanes, "weapons" labs in trailers, Iraq having no ties to Al Quaeda, etc. etc.), and then probably would have had a little more credibility for our attack, right? Bush could have thought better to use those conflicting statements in his 2002 SOU speech, considering his office received those conflicting reports months earlier, right?

I'm sorry, but the WMD is an issue that will forever be a thorn in his side.


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I yearn to shout,
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Old Post Apr-14-2004 16:10  United States
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Moongoose
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Celje, Slovenia

Well he said he is going after Saddam becouse he knows that he has WMDs and he knows where he keeps them. Both big lies on his part. And starting a war based on a like is going to hurt your credibility.


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Old Post Apr-14-2004 16:19  Slovenia
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Moongoose
Well he said he is going after Saddam becouse he knows that he has WMDs and he knows where he keeps them. Both big lies on his part. And starting a war based on a like is going to hurt your credibility.


Unless you can prove that Bush knew that Saddam didn't have WMD, he did not lie about them.

here you go:

lie, n.

1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.




As to Opus, you must not have listened to the same speech as I did yesterday. Do you recall the quesiton on the "mi5 plan", and Bush's response?


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Old Post Apr-14-2004 18:18  Israel
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biodigit
tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Washington, DC

Old Post Apr-14-2004 19:22 
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Cal
who then now bitches



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: T.O.

The problem with this is the guy not being able to admit he made mistakes for the sake of being seen as "credible."

And if Bush knew where the weapons were, why didn't he find them?

Old Post Apr-14-2004 19:31  Ukraine
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Cal
The problem with this is the guy not being able to admit he made mistakes for the sake of being seen as "credible."


What do you want him to say?

quote:

And if Bush knew where the weapons were, why didn't he find them?


The verdict isn't out on that yet. If you listened to him yesterday he is not willign to say anything right no because it is not certain exactly why he didn't find them. Thats what he is trying to figure it out. You must of overheard that bit though with your left-o-audio frequency



There were some ridicilious quesitons at him though. For instance, "Do you feel personally responable for 9-11?". A question like that is loaded with legal implications. If he says yes (which everyone in government in one way feels indirectly responsible for surely, and he stated he feels very grieved and remorse) they will sue his ass to pennies. Further, the only people "personally" responsible for 9-11 are the terrorist themselves


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Old Post Apr-14-2004 19:51  Israel
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
As to Opus, you must not have listened to the same speech as I did yesterday. Do you recall the quesiton on the "mi5 plan", and Bush's response?


Yes:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...4/13/bush13.DTL

I'm not sure how that refutes my point, however. Bush and his Admin. are doing everything they can to point the blame on everyone else but themselves. I have yet to hear any Bush Admin. member, save Clarke, give even a little smidgen of blame on themselves. That's unfortunate, because I think the blame is quite widespread, and everyone, including the Bush Admin., needs to be held accountable. But by encouraging a new intelligence agency, Bush is in essence able to shift the blame away from himself (because he's at no fault, mind you), and say it's due to everyone else's failures, therefore a new intelligence agency is necessary so everyone else (not him, of course) won't screw up again.

If, on the other hand, Bush mentions that he disagrees with forming a new agency, he knows that others would implicate him by saying he feels nothing is wrong with how things are now. I honestly wouldn't expect him to go any other way on that particular point.

Perhaps I used too big a brush when I painted him as too stubborn. I just ran across this article that explains it a little better than I can:

quote:
Bush's strength is also his weakness - he's an unmovable rock
By Dante Chinni
WASHINGTON - In an unsure, complicated, and scary world, George W. Bush seems a rock of certainty. You can pose a lot of different questions to him on a variety of topics - education, the economy, terrorism - and he'll have a solution for you, most often the simple, straightforward variety.

In the middle of a bumpy patch, this is President Bush's electoral strength. There's not a lot of good news for the president in the poll numbers right now. Some surveys have his opponent John Kerry ahead. People are doubting the course in Iraq and questioning his handling of the economy.

But the administration believes individual poll numbers mean little, particularly in April. And they can point to one solid finding in almost every survey: Mr. Bush is seen as a strong leader. He's decisive and knows what he wants.

Even his opponents concede this point. This is the president's ace as the election nears, and he's clearly counting on it. In ads and in interviews with supporters, it is the message the White House is pushing.

This is not a small point. There's something to be said for certainty and clarity of purpose. After all, leader of the free world isn't exactly a Magic 8-Ball kind of job. It helps to have some idea of what exactly you want to do when you get the keys to the Oval Office.

And the president has seldom wavered. If the question has to do with the economy, the answer is almost certainly tax cuts. On public education, a question that has bedeviled this country for years, the president believes in testing to measure results and then forcing changes in failing schools. On the "war on terror," the president has shown he will use force, going it alone if necessary, to remove harmful elements.

Yet, Bush's image as a "strong leader" may miss the point. The real question voters face this November is not whether Mr. Bush is decisive, rather it is whether his decisiveness and single-minded approach to problems misses important subtleties.

The White House likes to portray the president as the can-do CEO of a large efficient corporation or as a plain-spoken cowboy trying to bring a little common sense to a double-talking town. The best metaphor, however, is more 21st century. What we have in Washington today is the nation's first digital presidency with Bush as our CPU (central processing unit) in chief. And that presents real perils for his reelection and his presidency.

Like all computers, the president moves quickly and crisply, but the very thing that allows him to move so fast, a preprogrammed set of assumptions on most issues, can lead (and has led) to poor choices. This administration sees the world in binary code (good/evil, right/wrong). A series of if/then statements determines the course of action. And once the decision has been made, there's no questioning it. Examples abound.

If we cut taxes, then the economy will improve. This is a fact in the president's mind. You say the evidence hasn't borne this out so far? You say the cuts have led to massive deficits? That's irrelevant. Don't you know the if/then sequence?

If we make schools accountable, then they'll fix their problems. This is obviously true, because it's true in business, the Education secretary has said. You believe there is a fundamental difference between what the schools do and what, say, Ford does? You think there are a bunch of ingrained societal problems that drag some schools down? You simply don't understand.

But the most glaring mistake so far, and the one getting the most attention now, is Iraq. If we invade Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein, then we will be embraced as liberators and able to establish a democracy there. The simplicity here is breathtaking. It is as though no one at the White House ever considered the possibility that the Iraqis may hate Hussein and still not love the US.

Now, faced with revolts around Iraq, the administration says not to worry, because it's just a small minority and most of the Iraqis like what the US is doing there. Maybe, but do they like the US plan for the future and are they willing to fight for it? Are they really ready for a democracy? Are they really ready for us to turn over power at the end of June? And to whom will we turn it over, exactly?

Somewhere at the White House there probably are clear, strong-leader, if/then answers to those questions. At some point, the administration may even share them. But when you hear them, listen carefully. Simple, definitive answers can be comforting - but in a complicated world, they often don't compute.

If they don't compute by November, voters will be looking to reboot the political system - and the president, strong leader and all, will likely find himself booted from office.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0413/p09s01-codc.html


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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Apr-14-2004 20:20  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

In reading the entire article above, all of the observations seem valid but are missing a critical aspect of the office of the president. Judgement for disclosure. He reserves the right to protect his ways and means from the the world in his interest of security. Knowing full well his enemies, foriegn and domestic, will disect every nuance of his answers.
Another aspect that the article failed to recognize is his use of direct refferals to himself in the first person, consistantly, throughout the entire conference. "My conviction" "I look forward to hearing the truth as to exactly where [the WMD] are," "I would have dealt with it." "Even knowing what I know today about the stockpiles of weapons [not found in Iraq], I still would've called upon the world to deal with Saddam Hussein." This attitude towards the press, combined with his right for disclosure, directlty contradicts the articles notion that he is shirking responsibility and solely appeasing himself. He's giving the world the impression that he is putting responsibility squarely on his shoulders. Maybe he truly is or maybe thats what he wants the world to think..??
In a sense, he knows he is not just talking to the press or the American people, he's also talking to his enemy.
I think the article is only judging at face value and is not looking deeper than it should.

Old Post Apr-14-2004 21:59  United States
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Moongoose
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Celje, Slovenia

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
The verdict isn't out on that yet. If you listened to him yesterday he is not willign to say anything right no because it is not certain exactly why he didn't find them. Thats what he is trying to figure it out. You must of overheard that bit though with your left-o-audio frequency


Well usualy if you cant find something it uis becouse you dont know where it is. And if you previouly state that you do know where something is and are going to find it you are expected to find it othervise people will start thinking things. For instance someone might think that you were lying


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Old Post Apr-15-2004 12:45  Slovenia
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