In no way am I taking sides...in fact, virtually any one of us that does is only demonstrating our own ignorance, because it's impossible to know all the facts...but here's a classic example of why the Palestinian cause garners so little public sympathy over here...from today's Toronto Star story in which Isreal shot missles at a building after Palestinian gunman shot a pregnant mother of four at a settlement

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968793972154

"The militant Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group, claimed responsibility for the “heroic” attack in a call to The Associated Press.

The group said the attack was in response to Israel’s recent assassinations of the founder of the Hamas militant group, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, and his successor, Abdel Aziz Rantisi.

“The attack is part of the Palestinian reprisals for the daily crimes committed by the Israeli army against the Palestinian people, especially the killings of Yassin and Rantisi,” the group said."

Whatever people say against Isreal, they are seen to be targetting and killing political leaders, like Yassin and Rantisi, who are admittedly and directly responsible for attacks in Isreal...but then Palestinian gunmen target and kill a pregnant mother of four in response.

Who's going to garner more global sympathy and be seen as the lesser of two evils? Rightly or wrongly, it will be Isreal.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT In no way am I taking sides...in fact, virtually any one of us that does is only demonstrating our own ignorance, because it's impossible to know all the facts...but here's a classic example of why the Palestinian cause garners so little public sympathy over here...from today's Toronto Star story in which Isreal shot missles at a building after Palestinian gunman shot a pregnant mother of four at a settlement http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968793972154 "The militant Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group, claimed responsibility for the “heroic” attack in a call to The Associated Press. The group said the attack was in response to Israel’s recent assassinations of the founder of the Hamas militant group, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, and his successor, Abdel Aziz Rantisi. “The attack is part of the Palestinian reprisals for the daily crimes committed by the Israeli army against the Palestinian people, especially the killings of Yassin and Rantisi,” the group said." Whatever people say against Isreal, they are seen to be targetting and killing political leaders, like Yassin and Rantisi, who are admittedly and directly responsible for attacks in Isreal...but then Palestinian gunmen target and kill a pregnant mother of four in response. Who's going to garner more global sympathy and be seen as the lesser of two evils? Rightly or wrongly, it will be Isreal.

youd be surprised to know that in toronto... its very different. In fact, ive seen more sympathy for the palestinian side. Ive seen white people wearing Kefia's in support of palestine..

But as a whole, the American media tends to lean toward sympathizing with Israeli suffering, which is totally disproportionate from the palestinian one. You cant even compare the two circumstances.

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Blah, blah, back and forth these two statements, not to launch an attack on the commentaries of either of you guys but it sums up the tiresome Israeli-Palestinian conflict in a nutshell. Both sides feel they are right in what they are doing and this is one American who doesn't care to take the side of either, I am simply sick and tired of this conflict and wish the U.S. could just step back from even being associated with it. Maybe when both sides finish killing each other they can be ready to seek peace for the sake of their future generations, until then whatever.

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i agree with NYCTrancefan, this conflict will never end as long as booth sides are as bad as they are right now. letting them kill each other for some time perhaps is the best way for them to understand how wrong they are... and yeah, us should get out of that conflict, would be a wise move in regard to war on terror too...

im head purchaser of the israeli navy and even i dont give a shit about this conflict...

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ohh btw, must just give the background to why they did this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3679089.stm

i don't see why you couldn't sympatize with palestine as well as with israel?

the good news is, that this is one of few isr-pal threads right now this forum has gone from isr-pal to usa-iraq/anti bush

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Blah, blah, back and forth these two statements, not to launch an attack on the commentaries of either of you guys but it sums up the tiresome Israeli-Palestinian conflict in a nutshell. Both sides feel they are right in what they are doing and this is one American who doesn't care to take the side of either, I am simply sick and tired of this conflict and wish the U.S. could just step back from even being associated with it. Maybe when both sides finish killing each other they can be ready to seek peace for the sake of their future generations, until then whatever.

I don't mind the option of the USA pulling out of the Israel-Arab conflict. However if the USA would pull out, both sides would not "finish killing each other". Israel would most likely kill the Palestinians and no peace would be necessary.

That would be the reality of the conflict if international pressure (and the only one who has any pressure is the USA in this region) pulls out.

Israel is just as sick and tired of this conflict as the world is, and with no check on its power, it would very much like to end it.

So for all those who argue for the USA to pull out, go ahead argue. But don't go believing that the consequences will be humanitarian. The benevolent course of action is for the USA to stick it out with both sides. And it is doing that, I appreciate that a great deal from the humanitarian side of me. Many, many people, especially the opponents of Israel can not see, understand, or comprehend this benevolence.

St. Andrew,
Yea good point - the sad aprt is when TA doesn't debate the Israel-Pal issue, I neglect to listen on the news what ever is happening there.

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quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew ohh btw, must just give the background to why they did this... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3679089.stm i don't see why you couldn't sympatize with palestine as well as with israel? the good news is, that this is one of few isr-pal threads right now this forum has gone from isr-pal to usa-iraq/anti bush

Sorry, but no cause is so worthwhile that it can justify intentionally murdering several toddlers and a pregnant woman...

If they had gotten blown up at an army checkpoint, so be it... That's collateral damage..... This... is just savagery... Occasionally I give a shit about Palestinians, that lasts all of about 20 minutes untill the next time they pull shit like this...

I simply can't fathom how anyone thinks it is possible to negotiate a truce with people like this...

The video on reuters.feedroom.com pretty much killed any sympathy that I have for the Palestinian cause...

quote:

Originally posted by mps242 Sorry, but no cause is so worthwhile that it can justify intentionally murdering several toddlers and a pregnant woman... If they had gotten blown up at an army checkpoint, so be it... That's collateral damage..... This... is just savagery... Occasionally I give a shit about Palestinians, that lasts all of about 20 minutes untill the next time they pull shit like this... I simply can't fathom how anyone thinks it is possible to negotiate a truce with people like this... The video on reuters.feedroom.com pretty much killed any sympathy that I have for the Palestinian cause...

This is the very reason why I believe the right-wing camp in Israel is so large. The Israeli populace has been taught through savage acts against its people that the Palestinians don't desire 'justice', freedom, or an end to occupation - they would only like the Jews gone by any means possible (a view that was held by some but reinforced strongly to other people after 2000 when Palestinians were offered justice, fredom, and an end to occupation only to answer the Israeli offer with the butchery of its citizens).

Many Israeli people then attribute these act to the general will of all the Palestinian population as they by an overwhelming majority encourage and support such attacks. Its not a population that distones or even tries to put itself aside from their allegde extremists. Aside from the PR war, I know of no other way that the Palestinians have tried to garner support without extremism (and even their PR tactics are extreme).

As long as some Palestinians betray Israeli humanity, other Palestinians support and encourage their inhuman actions, and their is no voice or other course of action in existance in Palestinian society to repersent an alternative, it should be really hard to trysympathize with the Palestinians.

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Another reason the Palestinians garner less sympathy is because they do stuff like this: (see below). When an American looks at that picture, the only conclusion is that the Palestinians are freaking psycho.



A Palestinian holds up human remains as people gather around a destroyed car following an Israeli missle strike in the West Bank town of Nablus, Sunday, May 2, 2004. An Israeli missile strike killed four Palestinian militants, including two local leaders, as they drove in downtown Nablus, Palestinian security sources said. Two of the dead were identified as Nader Abu Leil and Hashem Abu Hamdan, leaders of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in the Balata refugee camp near Nablus. Al Aqsa has ties to Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. (AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)

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quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Another reason the Palestinians garner less sympathy is because they do stuff like this: (see below). When an American looks at that picture, the only conclusion is that the Palestinians are freaking psycho. A Palestinian holds up human remains as people gather around a destroyed car following an Israeli missle strike in the West Bank town of Nablus, Sunday, May 2, 2004. An Israeli missile strike killed four Palestinian militants, including two local leaders, as they drove in downtown Nablus, Palestinian security sources said. Two of the dead were identified as Nader Abu Leil and Hashem Abu Hamdan, leaders of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in the Balata refugee camp near Nablus. Al Aqsa has ties to Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. (AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)

ewww... what the hell... (i think i just proved your point )

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and the worst part of all is that some people on this board actually try and symphasize with these people, saying that they are the ones being oppressed.


lets see this, how many jewish "militants" go running in "palestine" and shooting up cars with pregnant moms with their children inside. I'll admit that colleteral damage does occur when IDF forces retaliate for militant activities but none are as horrifing as this/