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discojoe
GO SENS
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Ottawa Canada
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| quote: | Originally posted by LiquidX
HE's another Communist, waiting to make Venezuela the next Cuba.. |
sigh... i forgot about the world's biggest threat to freedom. It certainly is our duty to prevent the spread of communism. The USSR is dead, you're 15 years behind buddy.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
True it might be undemocratic, but most of Latin America's tyrannts started from democracy.
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what the hell does that mean? So who were Latin America's biggest tyrants?
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I wish the USA would not meddle in other nations affairs simply because it does not need to.
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Exactly. This would be a reason why they have the WRONG policy against Chavez.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
And could use a break for the slack. Who cares if a madman takes control of hundreds of one of Latin America's most promising nations to the determent of millions?? Somehow that would probably be the USA's fault too 
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yes it would be. There is very well documented evidence CIA and various United States governments were directly responsible for placing brutal puppet dictatorships in latin america over the course of the cold war.
One example is the Anastasio Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua who, during his regime was responsible for more deaths per capita than Americans in their civil war and all the American deaths of the 20th century combined. It is very well documented he was heavily supported by the United States throughout much of the 1970s. The United States continued to supply weapons, training and help with propaganda in Nicaragua to suffocate the left wing movements even throughout the 1990s.
General Pinochet was another dictator in Latin America very commonly believed was heavily supported by the United States. While chileans views of Pinochet vary greatly as he did clearly significantly improve the country's economy throughout his rule, theres little doubt of some of his brutal attrocities and crimes against humanity that many Chileans still have a very difficult time talking about.
The united states has had a heavy hand in fostering dictatorships in many more countries over the cold war decades including strong support in Brazil, Guatemala, Haiti and Colombia (I could go on) that have resulted in devastating, methodical crimes against humanity far more brutal than what you think has happened in Venezuela
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Although Hugo has been 'democratically' elected, he has made a mockery of the electoral system with use of violence, intimidation, and closing the polls. |
Examples?
The polls today have gone far smoother, and will have had far less problems and controversy that the florida elections of the past american election.
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 Aug-16-2004 04:37 
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX
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http://progressivetrail.org/articles/040816Palast.shtml
| quote: |
The Peasants Speak: Chavez in a Landslide
by Greg Palast
published by GregPalast.com
The Peasants Speak: Chavez in a Landslide
There's so much BS and baloney thrown around about Venezuela that I may be violating some rule of US journalism by providing some facts. Let's begin with this: 77% of Venezuela's farmland is owned by 3% of the population, the 'hacendados.'
I met one of these farmlords in Caracas at an anti-Chavez protest march. Oddest demonstration I've ever seen: frosted blondes in high heels clutching designer bags, screeching, "Chavez - dic-ta-dor!" The plantation owner griped about the "socialismo" of Chavez, then jumped into his Jaguar convertible.
That week, Chavez himself handed me a copy of the "socialist" manifesto that so rattled the man in the Jag. It was a new law passed by Venezuela's Congress which gave land to the landless. The Chavez law transferred only fields from the giant haciendas which had been left unused and abandoned.
This land reform, by the way, was promoted to Venezuela in the 1960s by that Lefty radical, John F. Kennedy. Venezuela's dictator of the time agreed to hand out land, but forgot to give peasants title to their property.
But Chavez won't forget, because the mirror reminds him. What the affable president sees in his reflection, beyond the ribbons of office, is a "negro e indio" -- a "Black and Indian" man, dark as a cola nut, same as the landless and, until now, the hopeless. For the first time in Venezuela's history, the 80% Black-Indian population elected a man with skin darker than the man in the Jaguar.
So why, with a huge majority of the electorate behind him, twice in elections and today with a nearly two-to-one landslide victory in a recall referendum, is Hugo Chavez in hot water with our democracy-promoting White House?
Maybe it's the oil. Lots of it. Chavez sits atop a reserve of crude that rivals Iraq's. And it's not his presidency of Venezuela that drives the White House bananas, it was his presidency of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, OPEC. While in control of the OPEC secretariat, Chavez cut a deal with our maximum leader of the time, Bill Clinton, on the price of oil. It was a 'Goldilocks' plan. The price would not be too low, not too high; just right, kept between $20 and $30 a barrel.
But Dick Cheney does not like Clinton nor Chavez nor their band. To him, the oil industry's (and Saudi Arabia's) freedom to set oil prices is as sacred as freedom of speech is to the ACLU. I got this info, by the way, from three top oil industry lobbyists.
Why should Chavez worry about what Dick thinks? Because, said one of the oil men, the Veep in his Bunker, not the pretzel-chewer in the White House, "runs energy policy in the United States."
And what seems to have gotten our Veep's knickers in a twist is not the price of oil, but who keeps the loot from the current band-busting spurt in prices. Chavez had his Congress pass another oil law, the "Law of Hydrocarbons," which changes the split. Right now, the oil majors - like PhillipsConoco - keep 84% of the proceeds of the sale of Venezuela oil; the nation gets only 16%.
Chavez wanted to double his Treasury's take to 30%. And for good reason. Landless, hungry peasants have, over decades, drifted into Caracas and other cities, building million-person ghettos of cardboard shacks and open sewers. Chavez promised to do something about that.
And he did. "Chavez gives them bread and bricks," one Venezuelan TV reporter told me. The blonde TV newscaster, in the middle of a publicity shoot, said the words "pan y ladrillos" with disdain, making it clear that she never touched bricks and certainly never waited in a bread line.
But to feed and house the darker folk in those bread and brick lines, Chavez would need funds, and the 16% slice of the oil pie wouldn't do it. So the President of Venezuela demanded 30%, leaving Big Oil only 70%. Suddenly, Bill Clinton's ally in Caracas became Mr. Cheney's -- and therefore, Mr. Bush's -- enemy.
So began the Bush-Cheney campaign to "Floridate" the will of the Venezuela electorate. It didn't matter that Chavez had twice won election. Winning most of the votes, said a White House spokesman, did not make Chavez' government "legitimate." Hmmm. Secret contracts were awarded by our Homeland Security spooks to steal official Venezuela voter lists. Cash passed discreetly from the US taxpayer, via the so-called 'Endowment for Democracy,' to the Chavez-haters running today's "recall" election.
A brilliant campaign of placing stories about Chavez' supposed unpopularity and "dictatorial" manner seized US news and op-ed pages, ranging from the San Francisco Chronicle to the New York Times.
But some facts just can't be smothered in propaganda ink. While George Bush can appoint the government of Iraq and call it "sovereign," the government of Venezuela is appointed by its people. And the fact is that most people in this slum-choked land don't drive Jaguars or have their hair tinted in Miami. Most look in the mirror and see someone "negro e indio," as dark as their President Hugo.
The official CIA handbook on Venezuela says that half the nation's farmers own only 1% of the land. They are the lucky ones, as more peasants owned nothing. That is, until their man Chavez took office. Even under Chavez, land redistribution remains more a promise than an accomplishment. But today, the landless and homeless voted their hopes, knowing that their man may not, against the armed axis of local oligarchs and Dick Cheney, succeed for them. But they are convinced he would never forget them.
And that's a fact.
---
Greg Palast's reports from Venezuela for BBC Television's Newsnight and the Guardian papers of Britain earned a California State University Journalism School "Project Censored" award for 2002. View photos and Palast's reports on Venezuela at www.GregPalast.com.
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Aug-16-2004 16:07 
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tribu
Guest
Registered: Not Yet
Location:
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Lets not forget that Venezuela has the largest oil reserves of any country not in the are known as the middle east (also one of the world's largest).
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Aug-17-2004 09:40
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Attempts to oust Venezuela's leader show 'expanding democracy' is just rhetoric
).
..though, if it wasn't for him, my family would have been assassinated by Allende. The error of Pinochet was what he did to the communists.. and he widespread that, and did something like Chavez, stay in power.
