the following is an excerpt from the book "The 48 Laws of Power - Robert Greene"

Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky

Those misfortunates among us who have been brought down by circumstances beyond their control deserve all the help and sympathy we can give them. But there are others who are not born to misfortune or unhappiness, but who draw it upon themselves by their destructive actions and unsettling effect on others. It would be a great thing if we could raise them up, change their patterns, but more often than not it is their patterns that end up getting inside and changing us. The reason is simple - humans are extremely susceptible to the moods, emotions, and even the ways of thinking of those with who they spend their time.

The incurably unhappy and unstable have a particularly strong infecting power because their characters and emotions are so intense. They often present themselves as victims, making it difficult, at first, to see their miseries as self-inflicted. Before you realize the real nature of their problems you have been infected by them.

Understand this: in the game of power, the people you associate with are critical. The risk of associating with infectors is that you will waste valuable time and energy trying to free yourself. Through a kind of guilt by association, you will also suffer in the eyes of others. Never underestimate the dangers of infection.

There is only one solution to infection: quarantine. but by the time you recognize the problem it is often too late. An infector overwhelms you with his/her forceful personality. They intrigue you with their confiding nature and the depth of their feelings. How can you protect yourself against such insidiuous viruses? The answer lies in judging people on the effects they have on the world and not on the reasons they give for their problems. Infectors can be recognized by the misfortune they draw on themselves, their turbulent past, their long line of broken relationships, their unstable careers, and the very force of their character, which sweeps you up and makes you lose your reason. Be forewarned by these signs of an infector; learn to see the discontent in their eye. Most important of all, do not take pity. Do not enmesh yourself in trying to help. The infector will remain unchanged, but you will be unhinged.

This law admits no reversal. Its application is universal. There is nothing to be gained by associating with those who infect you with their misery; there is only power and good fortune to be obtained by associating with the fortunate.

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i broke up with my exgf a while ago but her memory still lingers and haunts me. i guess a part of me is still attached to her. i know that if i ever met her again in person i'd be weak in the knees. the problem is that i've been trying to avoid her but she is still in love with me and tries to contact me now and then. while at the same time she dates other guys, which has completely turned me off. i have a soft spot in that i try to look for the best in others. is it really possible to 'quarantine' someone from your life and push them away? i've never done it before but am trying for the first time now. it seems almost inhuman. if it is possible, it sure is painful.

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hello thar

Odd timing on this thread. I broke up with my girlfriend, who I had been dating for almost two years, last Friday. Up until the weekend before last, I thought that we would end up married. I've done all I can to avoid her for the past three days. It's one of the hardest and most painful things I have ever had to do, because I know that it is destroying us both emotionally.

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1. Utah Saints - Lost Vagueness (Oliver Lieb's Main Mix)
2. Klea - Tic Toc (Paul Van Dyk's Re-Edit)
3. Alibi - Eternity (Inner City Mix)
4. Cirque de Soleil - Pokinoi (Sasha Mix)
5. Chris & Kai vs. Levin - Gone to Heaven

quote:

Originally posted by wwu.punisher Odd timing on this thread. I broke up with my girlfriend, who I had been dating for almost two years, last Friday. Up until the weekend before last, I thought that we would end up married. I've done all I can to avoid her for the past three days. It's one of the hardest and most painful things I have ever had to do, because I know that it is destroying us both emotionally.

who broke up with who?

painful isn't it?

i heard that the general rule of thumb is it takes half the length of the relationship for you to heal emotionally. so it'll be a year for u buddy

chris

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hello thar

Despite of the truth there is in the text you quoted, Chris, I find it extremely harsh, selfish and incomplete.

Where what we eat: you've certainly heard this before, and that's exactly what the "infection" is. This bit is based on two natural facts:

1) Experience is built on when we compare the present with previous events.
2) Thus, we're bound to be influenced by what happened around us.

When you watch a sad film, you'll probably become sad, because you believe that the facts from that film may happen in real life and that they're bad to people, harming them either physically or emotionally . If the film happens to contain something sad that happened in your life (or that you link to something that happened in your life), it may strike you even harder (as sadness/anger is a feeling that tells you you're being threatened or being deprived of what you feel necessary for a better life). A weird personal example is that I would cry everytime I heard "System of a Down - Chop Suey" because of the biblical bit, as it reminded me of many problems I had with the church and with my family. Notice I had to have these problems, link that situation to something in my life AND learn English in order to feel that.

What has it got to do with relationships? If you accumulate sad thoughts, you will eventually be depressed, as everything will remind you of sad feelings, which you have in a larger quantity (when compared to happy memories). If you hang out with someone who's often depressed, you'll feel that energy, you'll feel sad just looking at that person. One of my best friends was a very insecure person, whereas I'm completely oblivious to most things that happen around me. As he was often complaining about me being distracted (and my grandmother used to tell me the same thing), I slowly started to become a bit paranoid too, and it took me a while to realise that feeling was something I acquired from him, and that was far from reality. We've got many "seeds" inside us - it's up to us to chose which will be the ones to grow, in a yin-yang'ish way. If there's a feeling, there must be also the opposite of that feeling, which is exactly not feeling that first feeling (this sounds bizarre in English but I can't say it in another way ).

We're responsible for our feelings, and by controlling how we deal with what we receive. Blaming others for what we feel is a sign of cowardice, as we find it easier to blame in what we can't change, instead of doing something ourselves to change the situation (or how we deal with it). Once I realised I had the seed of insecurity in me, it was up to me to change it, not my friend. If I kept him far from me, I'd sure stop feeding my paranoia, but I already had some of it inside me (which I had to deal with) and he had other good things about him, so drifting away was just not worth it.

You're the one who's got the memories of your girlfriend within you, as you're the one who experienced them. You're the one to decide what are good things to remember and what are bad things to remember, including the aftermath.

If she's still in love with you, it's natural that she'll want to contact you. However, if you feel you're hurt when she does it, you must search the origin of your sorrow (I'm completely apart from it so, except for what you wrote in that PM, there's nothing else I know). Work it. If you think she needs to withdraw so you can work on it, tell her, and she should respect you (beware of the consequences though - if she feels she's bugging you after you tell her to give you some time, she might never talk to you again as she'll believe she bugs you whenver she talks to you).

It's not possible to "quarantine" anyone and push them away (as in "erasing their existence"), unless their meaning to your life suddenly become null. Even if she's gone, there'll be occasional memories, whose values will become null only if you realise any of the emotions attached to these memories are innacurate, and shouldn't exist. Like I said, you feel sad when you're threatened/deprived, so only if you don't feel you need it (or that it doesn't affect your life in any way), it won't matter to you.

That's why people emotionally unstable are more likely to harm others: they're not sure of what hurts them, how would they know what hurts people in general.

Hope this was helpful Sorry if I cannot review the text, but I'm working right now (reason why I'm on a break) so... well... that's all I can do for today

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Didn't the book mentioned about master your emotions?

i too just broke up with my girlfriend and been trying to avoid her but she doesnt get the point that i dont want to talk to her, she calls me then i always give in and answer the phone its so hard, i just want to find someone else to get my mind off her.

The 48 rules of Power Book is a fucking excellent one.

A top read, and the lessons learnt are critical for success in life. Many people when they read it though are put off by the extremely logical wasy that the book approaches situations and the frank advice it offers. But this is just the best part because in this politically correct world that we live in people are often removed from the realities, which are often harsh.

The response form Lira demonstrates this to perfection, as the straighforward advice which will provide the solution to the problem is viewed as to difficult to follow. Its like the excuses that non-successful people make to explain their failures without realising the people that have in fact made it faced the same obstacles, they just were tough enough to deal with it.

No offense to Lira, but when giving that book to many of my friends to read they say the same thing, and they understand the advice given and know it really does provide the solution, but they water it down because they realise they aren't mentally tough or self disciplined enough to make it work in their lives. A total cop out.

So the only advice I have is to follow that book word for word!

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Back the original problem, breaking up with someone you are emotionally close with is an extremely tough thing to deal with.

What I usually do when faced with such a problem is:

1. Keep really busy, do not become a recluse.

2. Exercise lots - Go to the gym, run, walk, get fit, eat well, get a 6-pack stomach, look good.

3. Start having sex with other people as soon as possible. I'm not talking a relationship, just sex, this speeds up the healing process.

That is all.

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"The first stage of the great adventure has concluded happily, and here I am installed in Mexico, although I have no idea about the future" Che Guevara

I don't find the solution offered by the book difficult to follow, at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite as it is just the slackers' way of fixing stuff: instead of changing themselves, why not blame others? It's too easy not to change yourself, and pretend all your problems are caused the people surrouding you. This book boosts the ego, showing that you've got some inner perfection that is impaired by others.

quote:

Those misfortunates among us who have been brought down by circumstances beyond their control deserve all the help and sympathy we can give them. But there are others who are not born to misfortune or unhappiness, but who draw it upon themselves by their destructive actions and unsettling effect on others.

"People who are brought down by circumstances beyond their control". I take he's talking about external facts, such as deaths, catastrophes, accidents and diseases. Yes, those are sad facts indeed. But what about the sorrow caused by inner factors, such as depression. It's quite simple to judge what person should be suffering and needs help and what person is just a wimp. Unless we're on that person's shoes, or try to understand why that person's got such behaviour, we aren't the ones able to tell a thing about them.

quote:

Understand this: in the game of power, the people you associate with are critical.

So you discard those who might be in need? Just because the person is sad, and you can't understand the reason, you're given carte blanche and you can leave. This would be fabulous, but only if we weren't in a community. Depression is not an uncommon disease, and usually people who have already been depressed can help better than those who have never experienced it (they're acquainted to what is happening, after all). This mutual help brings many advantages to societies, retrieving people who wouldn't be able to contribute before.

quote:

The incurably unhappy and unstable have a particularly strong infecting power because their characters and emotions are so intense. They often present themselves as victims, making it difficult, at first, to see their miseries as self-inflicted. Before you realize the real nature of their problems you have been infected by them.

Sure, we're affected by what happens around us, but we can easily tell what's ours and what's not (otherwise psychologists would all be doomed). If we're well with ourselves, there's no need to fear anything from the outside. As a matter of fact, it would only be positive, as you would be able to get in touch with your weak spots and strengthen them.

quote:

Originally posted by töbias Its like the excuses that non-successful people make to explain their failures without realising the people that have in fact made it faced the same obstacles, they just were tough enough to deal with it.

So, by not blaming others, I'm weak? "Success" mentioned in this book is one thing, "strength" is something completely different.

quote:

No offense to Lira, but when giving that book to many of my friends to read they say the same thing, and they understand the advice given and know it really does provide the solution, but they water it down because they realise they aren't mentally tough or self disciplined enough to make it work in their lives.

It doesn't provide the solution, it just post-pones things. If a person makes you sad, you avoid the person. You'll be alright for that moment only. If you ever need to face the same problem again, you'll still be weak, and bound to be affected by the sadness. If you work on that sadness instead, get in touch with what hurts you and heal it, you won't be affected by sorrow that easily anymore. Takes a lot more work to do, needs you to swallow pride and realise you're not perfect either.

quote:

This law admits no reversal. Its application is universal. There is nothing to be gained by associating with those who infect you with their misery; there is only power and good fortune to be obtained by associating with the fortunate.

So, if you're happy and someone is sad, that person makes you sad and you don't make that person happy. However, if you associate with happy people, that makes you happy even if you're sad (let's face it, chances are you're not happy if you're reading such book - even if you are happy, there's something you might want to change, so you're unhappy with something).

This is, like we say in Portuguese, "Hiding the sun with a sieve"

quote:

Keep really busy, do not become a recluse.

Sure, feeding your sadness won't take you anywhere, but avoiding it at all costs is just the other extreme. Do take some time out from sorrow, but you also need to meditate on why it hurts you.

quote:

Exercise lots - Go to the gym, run, walk, get fit, eat well, get a 6-pack stomach, look good.

Feeling well with oneself is important, that's true. You might need to remember thought that you're not just your body, but a mind within it.

quote:

Start having sex with other people as soon as possible. I'm not talking a relationship, just sex, this speeds up the healing process.

Once again, you're avoiding your problems by transferring your happiness to something immediate, such as meaningless sex. If you've got your problems, fair enough, we all have, but by the time you envolve other people in this process, you must be aware of the consequences. Who are you having sex with? Will these people become affected by it? Are these people actually expecting only sex from you, and not a proper relationship? What if something goes wrong and you need to deal with pregnancy or std's? After you've had sex, will it erase the problems you had? That's as smart as helping someone with diarhea (sp?) by not giving him food.

Misconduct in this case is far more harmful than being "a misfortunate".

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I'm going through the same thing right now.

i've been thinking about this the past week and have sifted both your arguments through my mind...


tobias: the book is a tome of wisdom, but one cannot take everything as fact. the author even mentions that some of the solutions to the laws... contradict each other, so taking each law as absolutes is foolish. the book also stresses that the laws are for the attainment of power, and the power that it talks about is of the cold ruthless kind

lira: i agree with you, success and strength are two completely different things. there was this quote i once read that said "if you could only love the world, you would be the most powerful man on the planet". thus being said, the strength that you're talking about is really difficult to obtain in this age. sure you can provide for others: the weak, the depressed, the dependent. but what in fact is your limit? how strong can you be before you break? i believe in altruism but it rarely exists (princess di, mother theresa)... there has to be a point where you must let go and say no, and this Law of Infection points to the absolute worst kind of people: the ones that are completely fucked up beyond hope.. the ones who make it a habit of 'infecting' others with their misery. to these types of people, being ruthless will save you time.

chris

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hello thar

quote:

Originally posted by Porky There was this quote i once read that said "if you could only love the world, you would be the most powerful man on the planet". thus being said, the strength that you're talking about is really difficult to obtain in this age.

Don't ever say something is difficult, for it'll eventually become hard to do no matter how simple it is. I know you've taught English, and you probably noticed that, those students who claim English is hard to learn are often those who end up having more difficulty.

quote:

Originally posted by Porky sure you can provide for others: the weak, the depressed, the dependent. but what in fact is your limit?

Remember you once posted about how we need to be like a river? (or a
pond, or a lake... it had something to do with water ). There's no
need to set limits - if you're weary, you certainly can't do as much
as if you were fine and dandy.

Besides, understanding (in theory) has no limits. Whenever there's someone depressed, and you want to be of any help, you first need to know where that sorrow comes from (no need for water to someone who's
hungry). Along with love, there must be respect as well, so if "the depressed" want to be sad for some reason, you've got to respect their decision. Maybe they need to go through it. You must understand (and respect) that as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Porky how strong can you be before you break? i believe in altruism but it rarely exists (princess di, mother theresa)... there has to be a point where you must let go and say no, and this Law of Infection points to the absolute worst kind of people: the ones that are completely fucked up beyond hope.. the ones who make it a habit of 'infecting' others with their misery. to these types of people, being ruthless will save you time.

If we break, that's because we did something wrong. Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we deal with these facts. If you feel you can't deal with that person's problems, staying away from them might be an exit, although it must be clear that you were the one who chose not to do anything. People don't infect us, we choose to get ourselves infected.

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