Any Virus will do. I'm not too fond of the Indigo ones, but anyone will do. If you get a Virus B, you'll be set. The Virus C is still very expensive and IMHO, not worth the extra dough unless you're really going to take advantage of the Moog filters, the cleaner DSPs, extra polyphony, etc. Go to vengeance-sound.de and have a listen to the Access Virus soundsets. You can use Virus C soundsets in the older Virus but you won't get the same sound as the Virus C patches are optimized for usage of it's extra features. Like I said, the Virus B or the red Virus Rack will be good enough for a while.

Honestly I almost creamed in my pants playing the virus b years ago. I still don't have one arg. My buddy used to have the virus rack but he uses protools and just uses the software.

I mean I do love knobs, but it is hard to buy a virus b for $450 on ebay when you can buy a powercore element for $200 on ebay and then get the virus powercore for like $300.

So one can do the virus and much more and the other just does the virus. But then again, the virus has knobs and I am patheticly lazy in setting up my nord lead 3 to control synths. It is nice to just get up, walk to my yamaha ex5 and just play it. It is just sort of a pina to set everything up for midi controlling honestly. Why do you think virus ti is set up so you can directly use it with a computer? It has the benifits of software, i.e. saving on the computer and loading from the computer with the benifits of hardware, knobs!!!

I guess it wouldn't be that much work to have my nord lead control the powercore but I have no idea how to do so effectively and the manual has no information on it really.

to control the virus powercore via your nord lead you need to use a virtual midi cable.

first you hook up a real midi cable between the nord and your audio interface. midi out on the interface to midi in on the nord. midi out on the nord to midi in on the interface.

the powercore virus is a plugin. you can control any plugin via your nord but you have to connect it via a virtual midi cable. so go and download midi OX/midi yoke. you need to install the driver first though as supplied on their site. once you have it up and running you assign your plugin a midi port and use your host's native MIDI out plugin to trigger audio through (set the port number to the midi port you assigned the plugin). in fl studio this is the MIDI out plugin. it has a number of unmapped rotaries and sliders which you can assign to any parameter on the plugin. there are even presets for popular plugins like the powercore virus.

to the thread starter.

virus b desktop/virus kb/virus indigo/virus classic are all virus b engine synths.

virus c desktop/virus kc/virus indigo ii are all virus c engine synths.

the difference between the virus b and c engine is fairly small. the c engine has 8 more voices of polyphony, a built in 3 band EQ, a moog emulation filter type and a revised control surface which is easier and quicker to use. other than that they sound pretty much the same. the virus classic is a virus b desktop exactly with a different colour scheme and some different presets.

the indigo 1 has a 3 octave semi weighted keyboard with no aftertouch. the indigo 2 keyboard has the same 3 octaves, semi weighted but with aftertouch. both kb and kc have aftertouch and velocity sensitivity and the build is nearly identical. the kb/kc keyboard is widely considered to be superior to the indigo keyboard.

you can get a virus b desktop on ebay for about £400. but i havent seen a virus c desktop go for less than £600. if i had another £200 i would probably still have bought a virus b and another synth. or a pair of monitors. basically, i just feel that the extra 200 quid isnt worth the extra features on the c. BUT. this is something you should decide for yourself. for the love of god demo an access virus before you buy one because:

1) if you want to make supersaws, any virus *wont* do it. you cant make supersaws on the virus. at least, they dont sound anything like JP supersaws. the virus TI has a 'hypersaw' oscillator (which functions like the supersaw) but from initial indications it wont sound like the JP supersaw.

2) its bassy as hell and its nearly always dark sounding. some people like this characteristic. others dont.

3) if you use fruity you are in for one hell of a shit time. (although to be fair if you use any hardware via fruity you are in for a shit time)

4) it is very complex and is quite difficult to program. you can modulate practically anything on the control surface and anything in the sub menus. you can even set the lfos to modulate themselves or you can use the mod matrix to create recursive modulation on any part of the synth. for example, the virus filter section has 2 parts. it is essentially a dual filter which is routable, can be modulated by its own envelope and which has a saturation stage. the whole thing can be modulated by the lfo (either filter 1, 2 or both) and you can even modulate the lfo that is modulating the filter envelope which is modulating the filter. additionaly you can route the filters in series or parallel. if you split the filters or run them in parallel you can modulate either one entirely separately for some really weird effects. yes. the virus is just a bit more complex than twiddling the filter cutoff in vanguard. this is good and bad. its good because it gives you unbelievable versatility. its bad because its sometimes difficult to play the virus. you are essentially programming it. whereas the nord lead is more like an instrument you play because of its simplicity. i like both. some like the nord. others like the virus. try it out before you buy it!

5) if you get a virus b i seriously hope you like submenus because you are going to spend alot of time programming in a little 2.5 by 1 inch LED screen.

the characteristic sound is dark. its very nice though and the filter can be configured to sound like pretty much any filter type of any synth with a few exceptions. it does a good moog emulation (even without the moog filter on the virus c). it does good oberheim filter emus too. it doesnt make very good 303s though. in fact virus 303s sound nothing like teebees. it is very good for analog type effects and squelchy psychedellic sounds (although you'll need to do alot of programming to get those sounds), evolving pads and massive, aggressive hoover type leads. it also does very good trance 'plucked' leads (listen to VNV nation songs like dark angel, standing or rubicon to get an idea of what this sounds like since they use virus presets on all of those songs.)

learning how to do all this takes fucking ages. theres a good reason why you see alot of people selling up viruses on ebay. alot of people buy one hearing that tiesto has one. they get it and realise - holy shit - this thing is really hard to program and fall back on the (admittedly) cheesy presets until they get bored and sell it on.

i have a virus b desktop and i admit it has gone for several months with very little use. only recently and going through howard scar's programming tutorial (about the size of a small book) am i beginning to use this thing. still have only used it in 1 song. which i abandoned. just be careful. its a great machine. really it is. but its not this wonder synth which will suddenly make your tunes amazing and it takes a long time to get somethign good sounding out of it. a really long time.

Last edited by Derivative on Apr-11-2005 at 02:35

Hey D, you forgot the Virus Rack having a Virus B engine and Virus Rack XL having a Virus C engine, hehe.

And yeah, I had a Virus Rack and sold it becauce I didn't have time to learn all the menus to edit the sounds...it wasn't intuitive. It's not too hard, but compared to a Novation Nova or a Nord Lead 2, it's hell to program. Same reason I sold my Prophecy...so many menus and I didn't have time to learn the interface...great synth, but a monster to program. But yeah, any Virus will cure an itch for good sounds once you learn it. Talking about learning, everytime I start messing with the AN1x, I quit eventually, haha, even using the AN1xEdit program. I cannot grasp the interface, LOL.

Thanks to everyone for your time, especially to Derivative.
The posts really helped me!


In Christ,
DJ Youth

___________________
We all worship something.

Ah I figured out how to use the nord lead 3 to control softsynths, just use generic remote in cubase. That mix ox crap is complex and confusing. I might just get the powercore virus and not the virus classic or c since it sounds easier to program.


I agree with the nord lead programming, it is so damn easy. Thanks for the info on the virus, I have always wanted one to make goa songs and psytrance songs. I guess you can pull out trance on it too. What is this howard scar's programming tutorial for the virus, I guess I can find it.

Honestly what you say about the virus may turn some people away, but it just makes me want it more. Cubase was a bugger to learn, but I love it now, it is so powerful and everything is placed just right. It was like my first synth, my yamaha ex5 had so many parameters on it I was so lost. It was so advanced for a first synthesizer, but I learned and it is super powerful. I would love the virus then, man the nord lead though can get complex in its sound diversity for how simple the programming is.

I think the nord lead 3 at least has super great high leads and pads, it can do bass well also. The nord lead 3 sucks for short pizz type sounds though. It just doesn't sound that well I think, everything needs a little release and sustain for the leads and everything else is a bass or a sound effect lfo thing. You can make dirty sounds on the nord lead 3, grindy fm sounds too.

From all the psychtrance I listen too, the virus is all over that. For making crazy sounds and ripping leads that expand high and over everything else, the virus is the key. I wonder what caused me to buy a nord lead 3 and not a virus? Only god could explain that one, because I have no idea.

Last edited by Flashback on Apr-11-2005 at 09:26

yea the first time i got midi OX i was like 'WHAT THE FUCK?!' confusing as hell. but it just lets you control softsynths via a midi out port. which is useful.

howard scar's tutorial is a free pdf on access's website in the support section. its the same place where you get OS updates and such. its near the bottom. its very good for learning how to make basic sounds on the virus and emulate moog type sounds or 303 type sounds etc. heh. although his 303s dont sound like 303s you want audiorealism bassline for that. the tut is great for learning how the virus works. its all in the mod matrix. seriously. if you dont spend at least half the time programming in the mod matrix you are probably doing something wrong. you can seriously modulate anything. its incredible. force the second lfo to modulate the filter cutoff and assign it to the mod wheel. then in the second assign slot, force the first lfo to modulate the oscillator 1 pitch over a full bar and assign that to the pitch wheel. so bringing both of those up whilst holding down a note on a dirty reece patch will make it pitch down and whilst its pitching down the filter cutoff opens and starts to scream along any lfo waveform you choose. you can do it randomly to spaz it out too. this is in addition to the assignable rotaries you have and the crazy shit you can do with FM and tuning the oscillators out to make sweet noise. the limitation ive found is the number of arms ive got.

and imho the sound of psytrance is easily the nord lead 2 and roland tb303 and the freeware plugin steinberg VB-1. easily. the squelchy space cat stuff is all nord lead/303. beathackers - transpose on agni hotra is all 303 pretty much. nearly all of cosma's album nonstop is VB-1 on the bass. fatali - hes a 303 fiend as well. city of god is mostly all 303. space buddha is another 303 fiend. i dont see viruses much in psy. although it can definitely do psy'ish type sounds. you see viruses alot in drum and bass. alot in hard trance and in hardcore.

the thing i like about the nord is its beautiful simplicity. no faffing around in annoying menus. no effects to colour the sound. its just purity and simplicity. and the lead 2 doesnt half scream :O nord plain saw wave is alot meatier and crunchier than the virus saw. virus waveforms sound a bit dull unless you pile on a shitload of effects. then it starts to sound awesome.

i used a lead 2x so i dunno about the lead 3 but yea - that was well good for high pads and bright crunchy leads. virus isnt very bright. its very bassy. it does amazing pizz type sounds though check out VNV nation's beloved. hey whadda ya know?! its another virus preset!

if you want to make sounds that evolve. and i seriously mean evolve you want the virus. it takes alot of effort to learn it. but you can make tiny subtle variations in sound to simulate analog behavior. again. all in the mod matrix.

lets say you wanna make a moog bass sound. route the first lfo so its modulating oscillator 1 pitch. only do it very slightly over the course of a bar. second assign slot recursively modulate the filter envelope decay time. this is cool because you can changethe envelope slope to make the filter sound more like a moog filter. you are essentially modulating the envelope which is modulating the filter. cooooool. lastly wanna give it a subtle random edge? assign slot 3. random. sub oscillator amount.

so now holding a note down or pressing it alot will have the pitch wander very very slightly like a real analogue synth. if you recursively modulate the filter envelope and you do it right you can recreate pretty much most analogue filter types give or take. the last random parameter makes the sub oscillator pulse randomly so it gives it a low level swell periodically. and this is before you have even done any automation. or used any of the LFOs. how fucking cool is that?! take that idea and move it onto pads and effects and the only thing ive heard that is more alive and has more movement is absynth.

if i were you i would sell the nord lead 3. get a virus kb and a nord lead 2 rack. that way you get the awesome virus keyboard. aftertouch, velocity sensitivity. 61 full sized keys. you get the nord lead 2 sound (which alot of people say is better than the lead 3) and you get a full virus b. and ill bet you'll still have chump change left over for ice cream aftwards. bargain!