Yup, one can't forget that although Japanese society had the guise of a wester civilized nation it was not such. It had only recently westernized and held strong barbaric and savage traditions.

There seems to be a lot of this praise "the savages" culture, where indengionus uneducated people are some how seen as always peaceful, living in harmony with nature, wise in the way and in balance with their surronding. Neglecting often case their real savage, canabilisitic, uneducated, and ecological disresespecting natures.

I dunno why there is this sense of romanticizing the savages, but it is done repeatedly and continually today (especially in higher academic circiles) that to think otherwise has become akin to racism in the eyes of those very people.



... Same can apply to native americans, africans, Inca/Maya/Aztec, pacific islanders, pigmys, etc...

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Yes, that is why it is one of the major discontention between Japan and China these days!

The brutality was also witnessed throughout much of Asia during Japan's occupation, i.e. when they took over S.Korea and Singapore.

Tweek, I haven't heard about this either. It was never mentioned in school...

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yup, one can't forget that although Japanese society had the guise of a wester civilized nation it was not such. It had only recently westernized and held strong barbaric and savage traditions. There seems to be a lot of this praise "the savages" culture, where indengionus uneducated people are some how seen as always peaceful, living in harmony with nature, wise in the way and in balance with their surronding. Neglecting often case their real savage, canabilisitic, uneducated, and ecological disresespecting natures.

Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

Japanese are part European, especially the Ainu people.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

Yes. I'm serious.

I'm not saying European nations were always cultured either. They defintely had their 'savage' ages. However the pursuit for education, science, philosophy, and technology allowed Europe to over come this and westernize.

There is simply an unrealistic observation of the facts of history when one tries to look at natives and nations we'd like to see as victims these days...

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quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot Tweek, I haven't heard about this either. It was never mentioned in school...

Yeah most people talked to on this subject have never heard about this incident.Its strange on how the US school system doesnt teach this.

I reamber reading this book at school on my own spare time.And people would look at the cover and look at me strange.Reason being the cover.



It had the word "RAPE" in big letter.Of course girls would look at me weird.So everytime i would have to stop and explain what i was reading.None of them had ever heard of the "the Nanking Invasion".

One thing i found strange about the book is that there were actually a few Nazi's in Nankings safe zone.Trying to help Chinnese civilians out.All this happening while the whole holocoast was going on in Europe.


Sad thing is shit like this is still taking place today.If i am correct in "South Africa".

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Last edited by TweeK on Aug-14-2005 at 19:16

Don't get me wrong what happened in Nanking was bad, but look at what the Nazis did in the USSR. That was worst if you ask me.

Oh and if schools don't cover this, it is probably due to bad teachers, my teachers mentioned it and they weren't that good(those mofo's will be paid over 100,000 after 15yrs!)

quote:

Originally posted by TweeK Yeah most people talked to on this subject have never heard about this incident. Its strange on how the US school system doesnt teach this.

I read the book when it first came out (1997?); it has since become an important piece in public awareness of the atrocities committed during WWII, and not only in Nazi occupied Europe. Checking Amazon, I see 629 people have posted remarks on it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

You should also know that a whole slew of Nanking-denying books have been spawned as a direct result of Chang's work.

quote:

Originally posted by TweeK It had the word "RAPE" in big letter.

This contextual usage of "rape" spawned a whole series of related and unrelated books, all using the term to describe the unfortunate exeriences of everything from people to objets d'art.

Chang's usage was literal and not inappropriate; these others are sometimes trashy and artsy-fartsy.

quote:

Originally posted by xxxtasy Yes, that is why it is one of the major discontention between Japan and China these days! The brutality was also witnessed throughout much of Asia during Japan's occupation, i.e. when they took over S.Korea and Singapore.

Also, the clandestine human experiments conducted on captured Allied POWs and "political undesirables" by the Japanese Unit 731:

_Factories of Death: Japanese Biological Warfare, 1932-45 and the American Cover-Up_
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...9110761-2981522

_Unit 731 Testimony_ (probably the best treatment, but OOP):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books


A brand new (overview) work has also been released on the history of Japanese biological experiments during WWII with specific attention to Unit 731, but the exact name escapes me at the moment. I don't recall thinking that it added much new material, and was sort of sensationalist like the first one mentioned above.

Cheers,
-N

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shame that she killed herself last year.

Now that's something we agree on, Shadowolf - considering the fact that we all descend from Africans anyway, they're are part European indeed, as we all are part Asian (and African) as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yes. I'm serious. I'm not saying European nations were always cultured either. They defintely had their 'savage' ages. However the pursuit for education, science, philosophy, and technology allowed Europe to over come this and westernize. There is simply an unrealistic observation of the facts of history when one tries to look at natives and nations we'd like to see as victims these days...

Claiming that the Japanese war atrocities cannot be compared to European atrocities such as the holocaust in terms of cruelty sounds a bit naive, if that's what you're saying. Besides, if you're talking about culture and science, Japan has had a quite impressive educational system since before the industrial revolution (a system that European nations could only dream of, back in that time), and they even had a rather sophisticated philosophical system, which reflected its society, although different than its Euro-American counterpart.

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