The plateau :

There is a saying (in martial arts) that the difference between being really good at something and being a master at something is the persistance of continuing on the same level for a long period of time and not having any progress at all .... then suddenly you get "insight" into all petty things ,
and you become a "master"...

don't know if this applies to production also ...

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Top o' the evenin' to ya... Here's something I've been wondering about lately. I know we're all constantly improving as producers, so to speak, but have any of you found that there were periods where you really didn't make much progress? I'm not referring to musical inspiration, but rather the improvement of various skills involved in the process. I know it can be hard to quantify, but I'm curious, how much do you think you've improved as a producer: - In the past month? - In the past 2-3 months? - In the past 6 months? - In the past year or more? Personally I can't go beyond that since I've been producing less than a year, but feel free to extend that timeline if you've been doing it longer. I think perhaps I've hit a plateau this month... last month I made leaps and bounds, which I suppose got me a little spoiled and I was expecting it to continue into this month. Didn't happen. It's not that I can't think of anything to write/produce, just that I think it should sound *better* than the stuff I did last month, and it doesn't. Maybe I'm just not being patient enough, or maybe my heart's not been in it lately. Who else has got a very "jagged" learning curve? Anyone?

I haven't been able to produce in the past month because i've been busy, but 2-3 months ago was when I really learned a lot of stuff. I got a new computer, got some books, studied 'em, and got wayy better. I bought myself Fruity on my old computer 6 months ago, 63mb of ram, 333mhz, i only made very boring simple loops on teh thing. When I got a better computer, I could do more stuff, but I still lack ram damnit! My pc is limiting my progress again.




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DigiNut, your music is really good. I don't know if that helps though. You said your heart hasn't been in it lately? Maybe a small break will help, you're probobly burned out *shrug*.

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how about changing equipment? (at least in software where in doesn't cost much) Get new Vsts and stuff. Download whatever you can just for fun. Using different stuff could could force you to learn new stuff you could then apply to your own stuff

change your environment...listen to other music (not edm) and try to incorporate ideas you don't normally would, but just for the challenge...you never know....

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I think this whole year I've improved vastly, that just may be because I started last year around the same time.

Every few months I make a big improvement, and every track, I learn from it's mistakes. And improve it upon my next.

Diginut, you're an awesome producer, I've got all the songs in your sig (hope you don't mind), and I adore all of them . If you've hit the preverbal 'wall', maybe you should take a break, or produce something completely different. Different like, something you haven't tried before ie Happy Hardcore (heh), or maybe some IDM (just assuming you haven't gone there already).

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quote:

Originally posted by groundzero74 The plateau : There is a saying (in martial arts) that the difference between being really good at something and being a master at something is the persistance of continuing on the same level for a long period of time and not having any progress at all .... then suddenly you get "insight" into all petty things , and you become a "master"... don't know if this applies to production also ...

I think I can almost very much concur with this.

You can always ask yourself if you REALLY need to keep improving all the time. I can understand very well if, at some point at a certain level, you say to yourself: "this is where I've always wanted to be" and be pleased with it. I think you can always keep on learning and improving, though I think there will be a 'limit' as to where your own capabilities might reach - without any external help.

"Persistence on the same level", I would say, is one of the key aspects of a producer's skill and 'quality' (if you can call it like that). At least, that's what always spoke to me the most with some of my favourite musicians

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Definitely true about staying on a plateau. I haven't done any martial arts since I was a wee one, but I do work out, and it's the same principle - when you hit a plateau you just have to keep working at it, and change your exercises if possible. I am doing this - I started on a trip-hop track a few weeks ago and it was going pretty well until I started losing the drive (to produce in general, not for that particular track).

What I was really wondering about was how many other people have encountered this situation and how often/how long. Thanks for the inspirational words though, much appreciated.

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I've only been producing about 4 months and I feel like I've gone from total noob at the subject to about a solid intermediate level (only because I don't know the program to it's fullest). It's amazing how much progress you make just from hearing other music such as jazz or drum and bass or whatever it may be and picking up some good rhythms from the tunes. I find that taking a shower though brings out the best of my production. It's basically my thinking grounds :-P . Anyways I feel that you being at a "plateau" is fine. You'll make progress you just haven't found that one thing that brings out the best in you or just like they say in martial arts you can't master something until you're on the plateau for awhile, then you get some sort of "insight." Good luck and I hope you make some progress soon...I know I have.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Definitely true about staying on a plateau. I haven't done any martial arts since I was a wee one, but I do work out, and it's the same principle - when you hit a plateau you just have to keep working at it, and change your exercises if possible. I am doing this - I started on a trip-hop track a few weeks ago and it was going pretty well until I started losing the drive (to produce in general, not for that particular track). What I was really wondering about was how many other people have encountered this situation and how often/how long. Thanks for the inspirational words though, much appreciated.

Of course every has an inspiration drop sometimes, or even a complete 'melodical blackout'

I think it's even MORE healthy that you have those, as it gives you the time to look over some things from a different perspective once you get back at it. I think that some producers who churn out a remix or track every week nowadays will eventually have a bigger blackout or quality fall-off (for some of them it's already clearly showing - I won't name anyone though).

Taking a break and getting some time to relax are very important (as counts with everything actually)

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u will hit the wall, at the time u make something that is better than what u have made before, alot of times when u make something that is somewhat unique and different, its very often, simple "luck" a lucky moment where everything u do fits straight into the track, the bass, the melody, the effects, the whole mix, is reaching a level never achieved before, making your last track on the top of the pile.

Then u think: "damn, im really good, i have really improved lately, now lets do a new track."
You start on ur new choon, which is going to be more delicate and different, than the last one you made, cause you "think" ur skilled has really improved.

When u start making the new track, u dont get those same unique results as your last one, and you are kinda stuck, so what do you do? either u get a track that sounds too similar to the track before?, u get a track that sounds different, but still not good enough?, or you manage to catch the magical moment, where everything fits like a glove, and the tune sets up to be the best one u`ve made.

and it continues that way, skill in producing is all about knowing HOW to make "that" sound, how to write "that" melody, how to achieve the certain amount of "effects" in your head, KNOWING HOW TO TRANSLATE THE SOUND U WANT FROM THE BRAIN, TO THE TRACK. (i think only experience and time can make u improve on that)

So genereally what im trying to say is that, you shouldnt always look at the results of your track, and judge your own skillz, cause skill and being lucky about a sound/track does not go on side by side.

As one produces, and listens to music etc. you get to learn what sounds to ditch from the mix, how to improve a bad sound, how to judge which sounds does fit together and which doesnt..

i dont know if this makes any sense at all, but i felt like writing it, based on my own experience..

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I improved tenfold in the alst year lol

I think just by doing music, hour after hour, not even thinking about getting better, just doing everything you think about, you get better. Of course sometimes you have to sit down, think and say: How the hell do I make this sound or this effect. Just producing constantly, unconsciously, you get better and better, the settings/functions/parameters become more familiar, until you know them by heart, you analyze everything you hear and mix accordingly etc etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle u will hit the wall, at the time u make something that is better than what u have made before, alot of times when u make something that is somewhat unique and different, its very often, simple "luck" a lucky moment where everything u do fits straight into the track, the bass, the melody, the effects, the whole mix, is reaching a level never achieved before, making your last track on the top of the pile. Then u think: "damn, im really good, i have really improved lately, now lets do a new track." You start on ur new choon, which is going to be more delicate and different, than the last one you made, cause you "think" ur skilled has really improved. When u start making the new track, u dont get those same unique results as your last one, and you are kinda stuck, so what do you do? either u get a track that sounds too similar to the track before?, u get a track that sounds different, but still not good enough?, or you manage to catch the magical moment, where everything fits like a glove, and the tune sets up to be the best one u`ve made. and it continues that way, skill in producing is all about knowing HOW to make "that" sound, how to write "that" melody, how to achieve the certain amount of "effects" in your head, KNOWING HOW TO TRANSLATE THE SOUND U WANT FROM THE BRAIN, TO THE TRACK. (i think only experience and time can make u improve on that) So genereally what im trying to say is that, you shouldnt always look at the results of your track, and judge your own skillz, cause skill and being lucky about a sound/track does not go on side by side. As one produces, and listens to music etc. you get to learn what sounds to ditch from the mix, how to improve a bad sound, how to judge which sounds does fit together and which doesnt.. i dont know if this makes any sense at all, but i felt like writing it, based on my own experience..

That is very true man. I got lucky with one tune that ended up getting released and stuff, and since then I've been in a permanent state of producers block.. And it is no doubt because I'm comparing all my new stuff to the one I got lucky with.

In a way it's been good though, because it's forced me to break out of the mould and try new things. So I've been experimenting a lot with workflow, inspiration, techniques etc. and have actually learnt a lot this year, without actually producing many results.

I think the real skill comes in consistency; anyone with enough practice and effort can get a lucky combination and make a great tune - but only the truly skilled people can repeat it.

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