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occrider
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York
Make Your Predictions With The Plame Investigation

Well it looks like Fitzgerald is going to wrap up the investigation pretty soon as the grand jury is due to expire at the end of August. As of right now we have Rove testifying before the grand jury 4 times with Fitzgerald making no promises to Rove that there won’t be an indictment, we have Fitzgerald officially launching a investigation into Cheney’s office with Libby and potentially Cheney at risk:

quote:

Cheney May Be Entangled in CIA Leak Investigation (Correct)
(Corrects third paragraph to delete reference to former White House aide Jim Wilkinson; corrects 18th paragraph to say Fitzgerald reports to Justice Department.)

By Richard Keil

Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- A special counsel is focusing on whether Vice President Dick Cheney played a role in leaking a covert CIA agent's name, according to people familiar with the probe that already threatens top White House aides Karl Rove and Lewis Libby.

The special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, has questioned current and former officials of President George W. Bush's administration about whether Cheney was involved in an effort to discredit the agent's husband, Iraq war critic and former U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, according to the people.

Fitzgerald has questioned Cheney's communications adviser Catherine Martin and former spokeswoman Jennifer Millerwise about the vice president's knowledge of the anti-Wilson campaign and his dealings on it with Libby, his chief of staff, the people said. The information came from multiple sources, who requested anonymity because of the secrecy and political sensitivity of the investigation.

New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who has now testified twice before a federal grand jury probing the case after spending 85 days in jail for refusing to cooperate with Fitzgerald, wrote in yesterday's New York Times that Fitzgerald asked her whether the vice president ``had known what his chief aide,'' Libby, ``was doing and saying'' regarding Wilson, a critic of the war in Iraq.

Potential `Big Case'

Fitzgerald has told lawyers involved in the case that he hopes to conclude soon -- the grand jury's term expires Oct. 28, although it could be extended -- and there is a growing sense among knowledgeable observers that the outcome will involve serious criminal charges. ``Fitzgerald is putting together a big case,'' Washington attorney Robert Bennett, who represents Miller, said on the ABC-TV program ``This Week'' yesterday.

The charges could range from a broad conspiracy case to more narrowly drawn indictments for obstruction of justice or perjury, according to lawyers involved in the case. Charges are considered less likely on the law that initially triggered Fitzgerald's probe, which makes it illegal to deliberately unmask an undercover intelligence agent, because of the difficulty in meeting that statute's exacting standards for prosecution.

Lea Anne McBride, a Cheney spokesman, declined to comment yesterday on whether the vice president, 64, has been contacted by Fitzgerald about his status in the case, except to say: ``This is an ongoing investigation, and we are fully cooperating.'' Randall Samborn, a Fitzgerald spokesman, declined to comment. Calls to Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, and Joseph Tate, Libby's lawyer, weren't returned.

Options

There's no indication Fitzgerald is considering criminal charges against the vice president, who gave unsworn testimony to investigators last year. One option for Fitzgerald is to outline his findings about Cheney's role if he files a final report on the investigation.

Fitzgerald, 45, has also questioned administration officials about any knowledge Bush may have had of the campaign against Wilson. Yet most administration observers have noted that on Iraq, as with most matters, it's Cheney who has played the more hands-on role.

``Anything dealing with intelligence, no matter how big or how small, Cheney is involved in it,'' Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said in an interview. ``This is his portfolio, and he guards it very well.''

Pursuit of Evidence

One lawyer intimately involved in the case, who like the others demanded anonymity, said one reason Fitzgerald was willing to send Miller to jail to compel testimony was because he was pursuing evidence the vice president may have been aware of the specifics of the anti-Wilson strategy.

And both U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Hogan and an appellate-court panel -- including David Tatel, a First Amendment advocate -- said they ruled in Fitzgerald's favor because of the gravity of the case.

Katy Harriger, a political scientist at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, who has written extensively about special-counsel investigations, said the pace and trajectory of Fitzgerald's probe suggests it will end with the indictment of Rove, Libby or both.

Harriger said she anticipates indictments in part because of the special prosecutor's willingness to jail Miller. ``That's not something you do unless you really have something more going on that isn't obvious to the public,'' she said.

Avenues of Investigation

Larry Barcella, a former assistant U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, said the recent activity in the case suggests criminal charges are likely, although not in connection with the 1982 law making it illegal to disclose a covert agent's identity.

A more likely focus is possible ``false statements, conspiracy or obstruction of justice,'' said Barcella, now a defense lawyer for the Washington-based law firm of Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker. ``It's obviously not good that Rove and Libby have spent so much time before the grand jury.''

To make a case against Cheney as part of a conspiracy indictment, Fitzgerald would have to show the vice president was an active participant in a decision to smear Wilson, Barcella said. ``It's a case most easily made if you can prove a person knowingly entered into an agreement to do something illegal,'' he said. ``Beyond that, it can be tricky.''

Fitzgerald's status differs in one potentially important respect from the independent counsels who investigated alleged wrongdoing during earlier administrations. They reported to a panel of appellate judges, while Fitzgerald reports to the Justice Department.

Given the prospect of both protracted criminal cases and then civil lawsuits, it now seems possible the issue will bedevil the final years of Bush's presidency, much as the Iran-contra affair burdened President Ronald Reagan's second term and the Monica Lewinsky scandal plagued President Bill Clinton's.

No Leaks

While there have been virtually no leaks out of Fitzgerald's office, and even the subjects of his investigation are unsure about his intentions, White House officials and Bush supporters are fearful that recent developments spell legal jeopardy for Rove, the central strategist behind Bush's political campaigns and much of his presidency, and Libby, a key architect of the Iraq war strategy.

When the investigation began, White House officials asserted that neither Rove nor Libby played any role in the outing of Plame, and both aides told Fitzgerald that they learned of her identity from journalists.

Reporter's Account

In her Times account, Miller said she told Fitzgerald and the grand jury that Libby, 55, raised the subject of Wilson's wife during a meeting with Miller on June 23, 2003. That was before Wilson, 55, went public in a Times op-ed piece with his accusation that Bush and his aides had ``twisted'' intelligence findings to justify invading Iraq, although administration officials knew he was privately critical.

While Miller didn't say Libby had identified Plame as a covert agent, her account calls into question Libby's assertion that he first learned of Plame's identity from reporters.

Miller, 57, said she went to jail rather than testify because, unlike other reporters, she didn't feel Libby had given her specific and voluntary permission to speak about their confidential conversations. She relented when Libby contacted her by telephone and letter last month, saying he had always expected her to testify.

Those communications with Miller may pose legal problems for Libby. His letter to her stated that ``the public report of every other reporter's testimony makes clear that they did not discuss Ms. Plame's name or identity with me.''

Surprise

Miller wrote in her Times article that Fitzgerald asked her to read that portion of the letter aloud to the grand jurors and asked for her reaction to Libby's words. She said that part of the letter had ``surprised me because it might be perceived as an effort by Mr. Libby to suggest that I, too, would say we had not discussed Ms. Plame's identity. Yet my notes suggested that we had discussed her job.''

Bennett, Miller's attorney, yesterday called that part of Libby's letter ``a very stupid thing to do.'' Other lawyers suggested it could become part of any obstruction-of-justice charge Fitzgerald might bring.

Rove's testimony also has been contradicted by others, such as Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper. He said his July 2003 conversation with the White House aide focused more on Wilson and his wife than Rove had testified, while adding Rove had not identified her by name. There is also at least one discrepancy between Rove's version and that of columnist Robert Novak, who first identified Plame as a Central Intelligence Agency operative in July 2003, according to persons familiar with their accounts.

Return for Testimony

Rove, 54, returned to the grand jury for a fourth time on Oct. 14 and testified for more than four hours. His lawyer, Luskin, who has spoken frequently with reporters, has gone from public optimism that his client faces little legal danger to cautiously noting only that Fitzgerald hasn't told them Rove is a ``target.''

Bush refused to comment when asked by a reporter today whether he would expect a member of his administration to resign or take leave if indicted.

``There's a serious investigation,'' Bush said. ``I'm not going to pre-judge the outcome.''

Wilson was dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports, since discredited, that Saddam Hussein's regime was trying to buy uranium in Niger as part of a nuclear- weapons program. After Bush cited similar reports in his Jan. 28, 2003, State of the Union speech and the U.S. invaded Iraq in March of that year, Wilson began telling some journalists anonymously that the claim was questionable.

Reacting to Wilson

That prompted behind-the-scenes administration attempts to discredit Wilson. In his June 2003 meeting with Miller, Libby told her, in the context of a conversation critical of the CIA, that Wilson's wife worked for the spy agency, according to an account published in the Times yesterday.

Wilson went public with his criticism on July 6, 2003. In his Times piece, he concluded: ``Some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.''

Over the next week, Libby and Rove talked to reporters, on the condition they not be identified, about Wilson's article and the fact that his CIA-employed wife may have had a role in giving him the Niger assignment.

Publication

Plame's identity was first published by Novak on July 14. He cited ``two senior administration officials'' as the sources of the information that Plame, 42, suggested Wilson for the Niger trip. Novak hasn't commented publicly on those sources.

Miller never wrote a story about Wilson or his wife -- although in one of her notebooks, dated July 8, 2003, a notation appears for ``Valerie Flame.''

One of the subplots is the role played by the New York Times. In addition to Miller's personal account, the Times yesterday published a separate 5,800-word piece that criticized both Miller and the way the newspaper handled the story.

The article reported the paper's publisher, Arthur Sulzberger Jr., and its executive editor, Bill Keller, unequivocally supported their reporter in her legal battle although ``they knew few details about Ms. Miller's conversations with her confidential source,'' and ``did not review'' her notes.

Miller, who wrote many influential pre-war war stories about Hussein's purported weapons of mass destruction that the Times later acknowledged were flawed, told the grand jury she recommended in 2003 that the newspaper pursue the Plame story. Jill Abramson, the newspaper's managing editor, said Miller never made any such recommendation.

In an interview yesterday, Wilson said that once the criminal questions are settled, he and his wife may file a civil lawsuit against Bush, Cheney and others seeking damages for the alleged harm done to Plame's career.

If they do so, the current state of the law makes it likely that the suit will be allowed to proceed -- and Bush and Cheney will face questioning under oath -- while they are in office. The reason for that is a unanimous 1997 U.S. Supreme Court decision ruling that Paula Jones' sexual harassment suit against then- President Bill Clinton could go forward immediately, a decision that was hailed by conservatives at the time.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Richard Keil in Washington at [email protected]


And we have reports that a senior Cheney aide has turned songbird in order to get a deal from Fitzgerald:

quote:

Cheney aide cooperating with CIA outing probe, sources say
Larisa Alexandrovna and Jason Leopold


Print This | Email This


A senior aide to Vice President Dick Cheney is cooperating with special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald in the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson, sources close to the investigation say.

Individuals familiar with Fitzgerald’s case tell RAW STORY that John Hannah, a senior national security aide on loan to Vice President Dick Cheney from the offices of then-Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs, John Bolton, was named as a target of Fitzgerald’s probe. They say he was told in recent weeks that he could face imminent indictment for his role in leaking Plame-Wilson’s name to reporters unless he cooperated with the investigation.

Others close to the probe say that if Hannah is cooperating with the special prosecutor then he was likely going to be charged as a co-conspirator and may have cut a deal.


Hannah did not return two calls and several emails to his White House address seeking comment.

Fitzgerald’s probe is investigating whether officials in the Bush Administration illegally outed a CIA agent to get back at her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who was a critic of the Administration’s faulty intelligence and lead-up to war.

In a July 2003 editorial, Wilson wrote that the Bush administration “twisted” pre-Iraq war intelligence in order to win public support for the Iraq conflict.

Specifically, Wilson called into question the veracity of President Bush’s claim in his January 2003 State of the Union address that Iraq tried to purchase yellow-cake uranium from Africa. Wilson had been sent on a fact-finding mission to Niger a year before and reported that those allegations were unfounded. Bush administration officials said Wilson’s trip was a boondoggle, and was set up by his wife who worked at the CIA on weapons of mass destruction.

Those close to the investigation said in June 2003, Hannah was given orders by higher-ups in Cheney’s office to leak Plame’s covert status and identity in an attempt to muzzle Wilson, who had been a thorn in the side of the administration since May 2003, when he started questioning the administration’s claims that Iraq was an imminent threat to the U.S. and its neighbors in the Middle East. The specifics of who issued those orders and what directives were given were not provided.

Hannah had been fingered by Wilson

To many following the case, Hannah’s involvement will not come as a surprise. Wilson pointed to Hannah as a possible leaker in his book, The Politics of Truth.

“In fact, senior advisers close to the president may well have been clever enough to have used others to do the actual leaking, in order to keep their fingerprints off the crime,” Wilson writes.

“John Hannah and David Wurmser, mid-level political appointees in the vice-president’s office, have both been suggested as sources of the leak …Mid-level officials, however, do not leak information without the authority from a higher level,” Wilson notes.


The revelation that Hannah has become a prosecution witness strongly suggests that Fitzgerald is now looking into the motive for outing Plame and how Wilson’s complaints threatened to destroy public support for the war, which the Bush administration worked diligently to win.

Fitzgerald may be looking at a broader conspiracy case of pre-war machinations by the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) and by the Pentagon’s ultra-secret Office of Net Assessment, the former operating out of Dick Cheney’s office and tasked with “selling” the war in Iraq, and the latter operating out of Defense Under Secretary for Policy, Douglas Feith’s office and tasked with creating a war to “sell,” as some describe.

To spread its message that Saddam Hussein was a nuclear threat, the White House Iraq Group relied heavily on New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who, after meeting with several of the organization’s members in August 2002, wrote an explosive story that many critics of the war believe laid the groundwork for military action against Iraq.

On Sunday, Sept. 8, 2002, for example, Miller wrote a story for the Times quoting anonymous officials who said aluminum tubes found in Iraq were to be used as centrifuges. Her report turned out to be wrong.

Hannah under investigation for role with Chalabi group

Hannah is currently under investigation by U.S. authorities for his alleged activities in an intelligence program run by the controversial Iraqi National Congress (INC) and its leader, Ahmed Chalabi.

According to a Newsweek article, a memo written for the Iraq National Congress (INC) raised questions regarding Cheney’s role in the build up to the war in Iraq. During the lead up to the war, Newsweek asserts, the INC was providing intelligence on the now discredited Iraqi WMD program through Hannah and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff.

“A June 2002 memo written by INC lobbyist Entifadh Qunbar to a U.S. Senate committee lists John Hannah, a senior national-security aide on Cheney’s staff, as one of two ‘U.S. governmental recipients’ for reports generated by an intelligence program being run by the INC and which was then being funded by the State Department. Under the program, ‘defectors, reports and raw intelligence are cultivated and analyzed’; the info was then reported to, among others, ‘appropriate governmental, non-governmental and international agencies.’ The memo not only describes Cheney aide Hannah as a “principal point of contact” for the program, it even provides his direct White House telephone number.”

“…Hannah and Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby, were the two Cheney employees,’ We believe that Hannah was the major player in this,’ one federal law-enforcement officer told the magazine.

According to the Washington Post, Libby discussed Wilson's wife with at least two reporters before her identity became public.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Chene...uting_1018.html


Soooo would anyone like to start guessing what will happen? I’m guessing Rove, Hannah, and Libby will be indicted. As much as I would like to see Cheney get it, I’m guessing he distanced himself well enough away from everything for there to be anything conclusive to charge him with.


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Old Post Oct-18-2005 18:37  United States
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

Rove - Obstruction of Justice & Perjury
Libby - Obstruction of Justice & Perjury
Hannah - ?


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Old Post Oct-18-2005 19:20  United States
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josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City

Dick Cheney: scot-free
Karl Rove: scot-free
Lewis Libby: scot-free

Old Post Oct-18-2005 19:37  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Rove and Libby look like the obvious picks. Matalin and especially Hadley are a bit surprising to me. And then the big gun would be Cheney, but I think he's a pretty big longshot. Larry Johnson has some info (former CIA guy who worked with Plame):

quote:
Had lunch today with a person who has a direct tie to one of the folks facing indictment in the Plame affair. There are 22 files that Fitzgerald is looking at for potential indictment . These include Stephen Hadley, Karl Rove, Lewis Libby, Dick Cheney, and Mary Matalin (there are others of course). Hadley has told friends he expects to be indicted. No wonder folks are nervous at the White House.

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_web..._tidbit_on.html


And this advice from a blogger at DKos seems appropriate, especially for me :

quote:
TEN TIPS FOR DEALING WITH FITZMAS

10. Put down the caffeine: For the next 48 hours, cleanse your body of java, aspartame, splenda, and whatever other shit you've been putting in your system. Your body will be producing more adrenaline during Fitzmas than it did when you were a hormone-crazed teenager, so don't fuel the fire.

9. "Refresh" is the AntiChrist: Resist the urge to press "refresh" every TWO SECONDS. Checking into Drudge every minute won't make any indictments come any faster..it'll just give him hits and make Drudge's head swell even more. Eww. I put "Drudge" and "swell" and "head" in the same sentence. I just grossed myself out.

8. Gossip Folks: Don't believe anything in the next 24-48 hours. Guess what!! I can report on my blog that Condi will be VP when Dick resigns...and because it's on a blog, it must be true! And my scoop will fly through the internets at twice the speed of sound and I'll be so convincing, Condi herself will hear my scoop and think "Shit. I need new shoes!" and next thing you know New York Daily News will be reporting that Condi was in NY shopping for Jimmy Choo shoes that look "Vice-Presidential" and Teresa Heinz passed her by and called her a "bitch." Get my point?

7. Turn off the TV: Why submit yourself to the torture of watching The Situation Room and listening to Wolf's "I'm-reading-a-script-but-I'm-trying-to-make-it-sound-live" voice in the hopes that some pundit will throw out something like "Rove will be indicted"? You all KNOW that the talking heads don't know shit, and that their dirty little secret is that they really get their info from the, gasp!, blogs, so why waste your time? So, Kristol says Rove and Libby will be indicted. Um...99% of the pajamajadeen have said the same thing for the last couple months. Give your blood pressure a break and turn off the TV.

6. Don't listen to Tip #7: Well, do turn off the TV, but turn it on for Scotty's press conferences. Nothing eases the nerves and apprehension of indictments than watching Puffy McMoonface squirm as he fends off a resuccitated press corps. With Scotty spinning so fast, you KNOW there's some serious shit going down.

5. Don't take off of work tomorrow: Yes, there are some of you who would actually skip work or school to stay home and catch the indictments breaking live. I've confessed to being a Plamegate junkie, but please. Those of you who view CSPAN as political porn need to put things into perspective. The indictments may not break tomorrow...and then what? You spent a whole day, one hand repeatedly refreshing dkos and drudge, the other hand holding a remote and flipping channels between CNN and MSNBC and, gulp, FOX, flipping and flipping and flipping and it'll all be for naught. So treat tomorrow just like any other day, use school and work as a distraction...and, um, did you hear blogging more than once a day can make you go blind?

4. Visit Freeperville: Watch the tension melt away as you read about how Wilson was the leaker, how Fitzgerald is really a closet Dem fucking Hillary at the Watergate hotel, and how Plame orchestrated all this just to get name recognition for 2008. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you might even throw up in your mouth a little bit. But it'll be a great distraction from the anticipation of Fitzmas.

3. Lower Your Expectations: Hey, it worked for Laura Bush. Don't expect too much from this. We don't know what was said in that grand jury room; about all we know definitively is that Karl Rove has a "typical" garage. Fantasies of Cheney being indicted and Bush as unindicted coconspirator are just that at this point--fantasies. Trust the Fitz to do what's right based on the evidence, and trust that the result will be as far as he was legally able to go.

2. Stockpile the Booze: Ok, you've lowered your expectations, but sheesh, don't be downer. No matter what comes down, these next couple of days will be explosive. So chill the Cristal (or the Guinness) and get ready. Also, compile a list of all the emails of your most die-hard GOP friends. Plan on sending them emails after the indictments, perferably after you've depleted your liquor reserves.

1. Enjoy the moment: Take a DEEP breath, and savor the fact that you're witnessing history being made. The outing of Plame was a vicious act, but nothing will be as sweet as watching justice being served.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/18/154648/93



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Old Post Oct-19-2005 02:53  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

Rove, Libby, indicted for what?

Old Post Oct-19-2005 04:10  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
Rove, Libby, indicted for what?


Possible obstruction of justice which seems apparent from Libby's letter to Miller which her attorney called a "very stupid thing to do" along with possible charges of perjury depending upon what they said to the grand jury and investigators at the start of the investigation. This isn't Rove's 4th appearance to the grand jury for shits and giggles. Apparentely much "clarification" was needed for his earlier testimony.

When you have folks like Bill Kristol, editor for the weekly standard, saying that their sources are telling them that the white house is "expecting the worst now", that's generally not a good sign of things to come.

quote:

'Bad omens' for the White House
Justin Webb

By Justin Webb
BBC News, Washington

This is a jittery week in Washington.

On top of all President George W Bush's other political worries and woes is the looming prospect that two of his most trusted and powerful advisers might be forced to resign and face criminal charges.

Mr Bush's closest political aide, Karl Rove, and Vice-President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby, are going to know their fate within the next few days as a special prosecutor finishes his work.

The case goes back to the summer of 2003, when the identity of a serving CIA officer, Valerie Plame, was leaked to journalists.

The Bush team had been engaged in political combat with Ms Plame's husband, a former ambassador who had criticised the president over Iraq.

A special prosecutor was appointed to determine whether this was a deliberate leak, which would have been a criminal offence.

Mr Rove and Mr Libby testified before a grand jury and that was that - until, under legal pressure, journalists who had been the beneficiaries of the leaks named their sources to the prosecutor and his grand jury.

'Confidence'

That seems to be the nub of the problem now - that the journalists might have revealed things that the officials had not mentioned.

"There's been nothing, absolutely nothing, brought to our attention to suggest any White House involvement, and that includes the vice-president's office as well," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said two years ago.

How different Mr McClellan sounds these days - responding for instance to the simple question: Does the president have confidence in Karl Rove?

"What I said previously still stands. You can go back and look at it - I'd be glad to show you the transcript when that question came up last time."

He does have full confidence?

"We've already addressed that."

Why, if you've addressed it, why can't you repeat it for me?

"Why do you have to keep asking a question then that I've already answered when..."

Former Watergate prosecutor Richard Ben-Veniste says the demand for extra testimony from Mr Rove last week suggests that he is in trouble.

"The fact that he spent over four hours in the grand jury indicates a great deal of scepticism," Mr Ben-Veniste said.

"In the first or second or third appearances before the grand jury he was not entirely candid, and in fact made broad statements that are now proved to be inaccurate or untruthful. He's got a real problem."

Vice-president's man

But Mr Rove is not alone. Judith Miller - a New York Times journalist - originally went to prison rather than reveal her source. But this month she did name him: Lewis Libby, the vice-president's chief of staff.

Ms Miller's lawyer, Bob Bennett, says that Mr Libby's fate depends on whether he told the truth when he testified.

"Much would depend upon what Mr Libby said to the grand jury. If he said that he had not talked to Judy about these things or didn't talk about the wife, then he's got a problem."

Even friends of the administration acknowledge that the omens are not good.

William Kristol - a journalist with impeccable White House connections - said: "They expect the worst now."

"I believe that both Libby and Rove will be indicted - not for what the original referral was about but for some combination of disclosing classified information or perhaps failing to be fully candid with federal investigators or with the grand jury."


That would be a very big deal indeed, which is why the famously cool Bush White House is sweating profusely.

Columnist Joe Klein chronicled the chaos caused by the legal and ethical travails of the Clinton administration, and he sees it happening all over again.

"There is a kind of paralysis that has infected everything - their decisions on Iraq, their decisions on Katrina. We have been here before during the Clinton years, and it's kind of shocking to me that we're back with special prosecutors again."

The prosecutor in this case will issue his report any day now. Mr Bush's presidency is already in a mess, and criminal indictments could all but finish it off.


___________________
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Old Post Oct-19-2005 04:39  United States
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:

'Bad omens' for the White House
By Justin Webb
BBC News, Washington

This is a jittery week in Washington.

On top of all President George W Bush's other political worries and woes is the looming prospect that two of his most trusted and powerful advisers might be forced to resign and face criminal charges.

Mr Bush's closest political aide, Karl Rove, and Vice-President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby, are going to know their fate within the next few days as a special prosecutor finishes his work.

The case goes back to the summer of 2003, when the identity of a serving CIA officer, Valerie Plame, was leaked to journalists.

The Bush team had been engaged in political combat with Ms Plame's husband, a former ambassador who had criticised the president over Iraq.

A special prosecutor was appointed to determine whether this was a deliberate leak, which would have been a criminal offence.

Mr Rove and Mr Libby testified before a grand jury and that was that - until, under legal pressure, journalists who had been the beneficiaries of the leaks named their sources to the prosecutor and his grand jury.

'Confidence'

That seems to be the nub of the problem now - that the journalists might have revealed things that the officials had not mentioned.

"There's been nothing, absolutely nothing, brought to our attention to suggest any White House involvement, and that includes the vice-president's office as well," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said two years ago.

How different Mr McClellan sounds these days - responding for instance to the simple question: Does the president have confidence in Karl Rove?

"What I said previously still stands. You can go back and look at it - I'd be glad to show you the transcript when that question came up last time."

He does have full confidence?

"We've already addressed that."

Why, if you've addressed it, why can't you repeat it for me?

"Why do you have to keep asking a question then that I've already answered when..."

Former Watergate prosecutor Richard Ben-Veniste says the demand for extra testimony from Mr Rove last week suggests that he is in trouble.

"The fact that he spent over four hours in the grand jury indicates a great deal of scepticism," Mr Ben-Veniste said.

"In the first or second or third appearances before the grand jury he was not entirely candid, and in fact made broad statements that are now proved to be inaccurate or untruthful. He's got a real problem."

Vice-president's man

But Mr Rove is not alone. Judith Miller - a New York Times journalist - originally went to prison rather than reveal her source. But this month she did name him: Lewis Libby, the vice-president's chief of staff.

Ms Miller's lawyer, Bob Bennett, says that Mr Libby's fate depends on whether he told the truth when he testified.

"Much would depend upon what Mr Libby said to the grand jury. If he said that he had not talked to Judy about these things or didn't talk about the wife, then he's got a problem."

quote:
They expect the worst now - I believe that both Libby and Rove will be indicted
Journalist William Kristol


Even friends of the administration acknowledge that the omens are not good.

William Kristol - a journalist with impeccable White House connections - said: "They expect the worst now."

"I believe that both Libby and Rove will be indicted - not for what the original referral was about but for some combination of disclosing classified information or perhaps failing to be fully candid with federal investigators or with the grand jury."

That would be a very big deal indeed, which is why the famously cool Bush White House is sweating profusely.

Columnist Joe Klein chronicled the chaos caused by the legal and ethical travails of the Clinton administration, and he sees it happening all over again.

"There is a kind of paralysis that has infected everything - their decisions on Iraq, their decisions on Katrina. We have been here before during the Clinton years, and it's kind of shocking to me that we're back with special prosecutors again."

The prosecutor in this case will issue his report any day now. Mr Bush's presidency is already in a mess, and criminal indictments could all but finish it off.


Source: BBC


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-19-2005 05:28  United States
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
Rove, Libby, indicted for what?


Rove for being a sweaty fat-ass & Scooter for having the same name as the dukes of hazard guy.

PS
see my post above; i already answered your question.


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Old Post Oct-19-2005 17:24  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by Spacey Orange
& Scooter for having the same name as the dukes of hazard guy.

no, his name was "Cooter". jeez

Old Post Oct-20-2005 07:13  United States
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
no, his name was "Cooter". jeez


i'm actually relieved that i made that mistake.



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Old Post Oct-20-2005 08:11  United States
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

I think this investigation will hinge in large part on whether any lower officials involved flipped (if anyone did) to save their own hides. If Fitz has a squealer, then it will be a Merry Firzmas (after a Happy Sinko-DelayO) for liberals and principled conservatives of the rare Occrider breed.

Rove and Libby have stated that they did not blow the cover of Plame, and that they merely repeated what they were told by other reporters about Plame. I believe this to be absurd, because only high ranking government officials with a security clearance know the identities of NOCs operating throughout the world. This excludes reporters.

And note the timing.

A mere 8 days after Joe Wilson published his op/ed in the New York Times discrediting one of the rationales for the Iraq War, the claim that Saddam sought to obtain uranium from Niger; a mere seven days after this claim was subsequently retracted by the White House, his wife, a covert NOC, had her cover blown by Bob Novhack and other media shills.


For more detailed info on NOCs and Plamegate, read this article by intelligence company Stratfor:

quote:


http://www.stratfor.com/products/pr...e.php?id=257167

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/18/51459/246

GEOPOLITICAL INTELLIGENCE REPORT10.17.2005
The Importance of the Plame Affair
By George Friedman

_snip_

There is an explicit and implicit contract between the United States and its NOCs. It has many parts, but there is one fundamental part: A NOC will never reveal that he is or was a NOC without special permission. When he does reveal it, he never gives specifics. The government also makes a guarantee -- it will never reveal the identity of a NOC under any circumstances and, in fact, will do everything to protect it. If you have lied to your closest friends for 30 years about who you are and why you talk to them, no government bureaucrat has the right to reveal your identity for you. Imagine if you had never told your children -- and never planned to tell your children -- that you worked for the CIA, and they suddenly read in the New York Times that you were someone other than they thought you were.


There is more to this. When it is revealed that you were a NOC, foreign intelligence services begin combing back over your life, examining every relationship you had. Anyone you came into contact with becomes suspect. Sometimes, in some countries, becoming suspect can cost you your life. Revealing the identity of a NOC can be a matter of life and death -- frequently, of people no one has ever heard of or will ever hear of again.


In short, a NOC owes things to his country, and his country owes things to the NOC. We have no idea what Valerie Plame told her family or friends about her work. It may be that she herself broke the rules, revealing that she once worked as a NOC. We can't know that, because we don't know whether she received authorization from the CIA to say things after her own identity was blown by others. She might have been irresponsible, or she might have engaged in damage control. We just don't know.


What we do know is this. In the course of events, reporters contacted two senior officials in the White House -- Rove and Libby. Under the least-damaging scenario we have heard, the reporters already knew that Plame had worked as a NOC. Rove and Libby, at this point, were obligated to say, at the very least, that they could neither confirm nor deny the report. In fact, their duty would have been quite a bit more: Their job was to lie like crazy to mislead the reporters. Rove and Libby had top security clearances and were senior White House officials. It was their sworn duty, undertaken when they accepted their security clearance, to build a "bodyguard of lies" -- in Churchill's phrase -- around the truth concerning U.S. intelligence capabilities.


Some would argue that if the reporters already knew her identity, the cat was out of the bag and Rove and Libby did nothing wrong. Others would argue that if Plame or her husband had publicly stated that she was a NOC, Rove and Libby were freed from their obligation. But the fact is that legally and ethically, nothing relieves them of the obligation to say nothing and attempt to deflect the inquiry. This is not about Valerie Plame, her husband or Time Magazine. The obligation exists for the uncounted number of NOCs still out in the field.


Americans stay safe because of NOCs. They are the first line of defense. If the system works, they will be friends with Saudi citizens who are financing al Qaeda. The NOC system was said to have been badly handled under the Clinton administration -- this is the lack of humint that has been discussed since the 9-11 attacks. The United States paid for that. And that is what makes the Rove-Libby leak so stunning. The obligation they had was not only to Plame, but to every other NOC leading a double life who is in potentially grave danger.
_snip_







What I would like to see happen:

Rove, Libby, and Cheney indicted for conspiracy to commit treason with W named as un-indicted co-conspirator.


What I think will happen:

If even neoconservative shills close to the administration like Bill Kristol believe there will be indictments, I believe indictments are a near certainty. The question is who will be indicted?


I believe Rove and Libby are indicted on conspiracy, perjury and/or obstruction of justice charges and if one or more underlings have flipped then we might possibly see a Cheney indictment on a conspiracy charge. Treason charges, (which carry the death penalty) will not be issued.

I think W gets away without impeachment or resignation, albeit with an impotent presidency, if Republicans retain congress in 2006. If they lose Congress in 2006 (in part because of this minor treason business), then there will be articles of impeachment but not likely a conviction.

And just a note, the grand jury is over 75% African American, only 12 of the 23 grand jurors need to agree in order to bring indictments, and with a 2% approval rating among African Americans for this administration post Katrina, I believe Fitz will get any indictments he asks for.

Think of it as the Karmic retribution for the Southern Strategy.

So again, I believe if Fitz wants to bring charges his grand jury will go along with him.

It's up to Fitzgerald, and all we can do is wait for next week.


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Last edited by DaveSZ on Oct-22-2005 at 01:23

Old Post Oct-22-2005 01:10 
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

first off, Wilson's discrediting was discredited. it took time. time that the administration didn't have, but was ultimately discredited.

second, Plame wasn't some covert NOC.

treason? and wtf, BTW, is "minor treason"?

...and the whole black thing is ridiculous.

Old Post Oct-22-2005 02:05  United States
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