quote:

Yes, you heard it here. After many attempts to find something likeable about this synth, I found only frustration and disapointment.

this happens alot but if you let it get to you then thats a shame. a synth is like any instrument - it is only limited by the ability of the musician that is playing it. synths dont just sit well in the mix by default, nor is it the hallmark of a good synth. the virus is certainly no exception because, quite the opposite of the nord lead, it is difficult to get very bright sounds out of it - the raw waveforms have very little top end. thats not to say it isnt possible - it is (for instance, by using FM and tuning the 2nd oscillator up/saturating the filter pretty hard/using rectified or digital distortion/lots of filter resonance with the cutoff very high/using the 3 band EQ on the virus c/post processing/or a combination of some or all of the above). but it takes a little more effort and a little more thought. thats the work that you as a producer should do. if you fail to achieve this, it is not because of something inherantly wrong in the instrument. it is a failure on your part to make anything happen using that instrument.

my advice - try harder. try some things differently. if you spent this much time and money it would be a shame to see all of that go to waste. and maybe this will be reassuring, but most of us have been through periods where we just cannot build any sounds we seem to like. part of being a good producer and a good musician is trying to overcome these barriers. many people here would be ecstatic to own a nord lead. i can think of quite a few people around here who could really build some amazing things on it. having played on a nord lead 2x myself and having heard too many records to mention that have put this instrument to good use, you will have to excuse me for believing that you are flat out wrong.

just one question though. out of curiousity. why did you (at various points) decide to buy all the nord lead models? including both rack and keyboard versions?

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative this happens alot but if you let it get to you then thats a shame. a synth is like any instrument - it is only limited by the ability of the musician that is playing it. synths dont just sit well in the mix by default, nor is it the hallmark of a good synth. the virus is certainly no exception because, quite the opposite of the nord lead, it is difficult to get very bright sounds out of it - the raw waveforms have very little top end. thats not to say it isnt possible - it is (for instance, by using FM and tuning the 2nd oscillator up/saturating the filter pretty hard/using rectified or digital distortion/lots of filter resonance with the cutoff very high/using the 3 band EQ on the virus c/post processing/or a combination of some or all of the above). but it takes a little more effort and a little more thought. thats the work that you as a producer should do. if you fail to achieve this, it is not because of something inherantly wrong in the instrument. it is a failure on your part to make anything happen using that instrument. my advice - try harder. try some things differently. if you spent this much time and money it would be a shame to see all of that go to waste. and maybe this will be reassuring, but most of us have been through periods where we just cannot build any sounds we seem to like. part of being a good producer and a good musician is trying to overcome these barriers. many people here would be ecstatic to own a nord lead. i can think of quite a few people around here who could really build some amazing things on it. having played on a nord lead 2x myself and having heard too many records to mention that have put this instrument to good use, you will have to excuse me for believing that you are flat out wrong. just one question though. out of curiousity. why did you (at various points) decide to buy all the nord lead models? including both rack and keyboard versions?

First of all, thanks for rational reply and not jumping out with flaming. I would agree with you that instrument is only limited by artist's imagination or lack thereof. However, some instruments have more or better presense than others. It all depends on application, right? I mean if I wanted to write a pure "death-metal" tune, I would not use a violin as an exclusive instrument to create it with.

I am sure you agree that on a basic level, every instrument has some sort of characteristic and certain limitations. Sure, they may be virtually endless but without examining each sound on a microscopic level, I am sure we can deduce that each synth has a particular sound and application where it excells.

Let's not throw away baby with bath water but at the same time I should clarify my statement. For my musical application, I found Nord synths dull. Perhaps for someone else this will be just the ticket. Sure, my initial comments were based on more of an emotional response to technology (heh! BT, eat your heart out!).

Hence my disapointment with Nord. It just failed to "wow" me.

To further prove my point about instrument and application, let's do a quick test. I name instrument, you think of association - e.g. what would you associate it with. My thoughts are included below.

Example: Electric Guitar - Rock

So, let's go:

Moog - Bass, leads
303 - Bass, acid lines
Jupiter 8 - "Rio" arp, spacey pads, lush basses
JP8080 - Supersaw


and....

Nord Lead - ......... er... mmm...

Sorry, can't really think of any example, perhaps short of "Solar Stone - 7th City", for "that guitar" sound (which, ironically got me interested in Nord in the first place).

Oh, and to answer your question about nords, why did I have all models at different times? Simple - trying out different ideas, to see what worked.

Started initially with Nord Lead 3 Kbd. Didn't like it too much - had no built in FX and I was a beginner then. Didn't really appreciate the flexibility of synth (vs. rompler). Returned to the store virtually the same day.

Then, I picked up a 2x - that one actually got me quite interested but filters were too cold and too harsh for my ears. So, on e-bay it went.

I then traded some obscure gear for original rack version of Nord - as it got rave reviews from trance producers. I had the 12voice version. I liked it but it was just sounded too damn thin in the mix and compared to my arsenal of Analogs - it just didn't stand out. So, I sold it.

Right after I sold it I had a great deal offered to me to pick up NL3 rack. Figuring it's been 3 years since I tried NL3 and now that I have a decent external FX unit - this could be the freshness I was looking for. Plus I was looking for some decent EP/Wurlie type sounds. Well, I was actually more impressed with NL1 than NL3 in that area.

so, that's the reason for my critique.

But positives are:
1. Styling
2. Pitchstick and Mod wheels
3. Size
4. NL3 design - to die for.

It is a cool instrument but I just have a love-hate relationship with it and it turned more towards dislike lately.

oh, and I am not a synth novice - I don't rely on patches for anything more than demo of synth range and capability.

I "roll my own" ;-).

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

well with regards to my question...i cant see why anyone would buy a nord lead 3 keyboard, take it back the same day, then buy a nord rack 3 which is the same synth minus the keyboard, pitch stick and mod wheel.

i also dont see how you can really get deep into a synth having only used it for a day before returning it.

it took me about a year to start getting to grips with my virus b. enough that i was starting to build sounds on it from scratch which i liked. a whole year.

you must be a millionair spending (and wasting) your money that easy

I can imagine what your posts would look like on automobile forums: 'I bought a Ferrari yesterday but i didnt like the braking pedal, it's to wide, so I sold it on Ebay. The next day i bought a lamborghini, but then I realised I hate yellow, so I sold it.'

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 First of all, thanks for rational reply and not jumping out with flaming. I would agree with you that instrument is only limited by artist's imagination or lack thereof. However, some instruments have more or better presense than others. It all depends on application, right? I mean if I wanted to write a pure "death-metal" tune, I would not use a violin as an exclusive instrument to create it with. Example: Electric Guitar - Rock So, let's go: Moog - Bass, leads 303 - Bass, acid lines Jupiter 8 - "Rio" arp, spacey pads, lush basses JP8080 - Supersaw and.... Nord Modular - PSYTRANCE Sorry, can't really think of any example, perhaps short of "Solar Stone - 7th City", for "that guitar" sound (which, ironically got me interested in Nord in the first place).

Thought you said guitar was for rock?

What?? No violins in death metal? JP8080 only makes you think of supersaw?

Think outside the box.

Not sure what you produced but Its very subjective. Each synth does have characteristics and as you even said "t - but just like all the rest of nords, it lacked bottom end and it sounded thin no matter what you tried."
The fact that you thought it lacked bottom end and was thin, simply confirms that you acknowledge that it has a personality of its own, of which that you don't like. IMO, the nord sound is distinguishable when we're talking VAs. Its bright and bold and very "upfront". It sounds like it can be harsh at times too. To me for instance, the virus has a wide sound.. almost like its always panned to each side.To me, nord's oscillators have good depth to them and sound round when comparing VAs.

"Certain synths are good at doing a limited of things.
Jupiter 8 - "Rio" arp, spacey pads, lush basses
JP8080 - Supersaw"

I agree here.... Yes, you have many possibilities and usually you can get many different sounds off one little synth, but usually, despite what the manufactures want us to believe, they are limited.. specifically to their timbre or "sound" as we might call it. Thats why you got people who seek synths specifically for their character or to play a specific role in their mix. As you had your list going:


""So, let's go:"""

Moog - Bass, leads
303 - Bass, acid lines
Jupiter 8 - "Rio" arp, spacey pads, lush basses
JP8080 - Supersaw


and....

Nord Lead - sharp cutting edge leads .......think Nine inch nails, crystal method, prodigy, etc.


Again, much of this is subjective, but hopefully it can help you understand why these are sought after synthesizers for a variety of genres.

Correct me if im wrong, but didn't the NL2 rock the hell out of the psytrance scene around 96? Those plastic low-passed sweeps, qweeks and tweaks! The Nordlead actually defined psytrance at that time...

Anyways, like someone said; "think out of the box"
If you can't use it for what you thought you would, use it for what you can instead and maybe you'll discover/learn to like a whole new sound.

And if i don't remember wrong, whilst i was floinking with it in a music store... i just got amazed by that lush distorstion unit it had, very crisp and sweet... sure it will be defined in a tune, without a doubt as long as you don't process it further with external effects... as nowdays it's popular to colour your sound with diffrent analogue filters...

I think you can make some pretty spaced out plucks and leads with the Lead! Tune upp the dist, use squares and lowpass put on some sweet delay, compression and long tailed reverb.... you'll probably hear it's a Lead-lead/pluck

Oh, and don't forget... sounding "thin" alone isn't always "thin" in a mix!

the nord lead 2 *still* rocks the hell out of psytrance.

every second psytrance tune these days has a nord lead and/or a 303 (or 303 emu) in it.

Hmf. Lots of good thoughts. I guess to each their own. I guess I am spoiled when it comes to synths.

I had owned most of the VAs you can imagine and for some reason Nord is the most memorable. For me - it was in a negative way. So, the poster above is right - it does have a character. Just not what I'd consider desirable for the sounds I am looking for.

I kid you not, there are very few synths out there that I haven't owned or used. Nord was probably the one of the few pieces of kit that impressed me the least. Especially at the price point??

Take Matrix 1000 - for $200, even without any external tweakability - that synth is a monster!!!! For the same price you would shell out on new Nord Rack, you can pick up 7 Matrix 1000's (for 42 voice poly) and have some money left for MIDI controller.

Perhaps you are right - for particular soundscape, such as goa/psy - this is the ticket. For lush pads, trancey leads, bleh bleh bleh - it just didn't cut it.

Not to say that the instrument is useless or not good. Just a personal point of view.

I'm sure that some people could say that Ferrari is awesome and there are some folks who would say it sucks. So, to each their own.

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Some of the gear I owned or still own:

Akai AX80
Alesis Andromeda
Alesis Ion
Access Virus A
Access Virus B
Access Virus Kb
Access Virus kC
Access Virus Indigo Redback
Clavia Nord Lead 1
Nord Lead 2
Nord Lead 2x
Nord Lead 3
Cheetah MS6
Emu XL-7, PX-7, Vintage Archives modules
Future Retro Revolution
Future Retro 777
Kawai XD-5
Kawai K5000s
Novation supernova II (rack/kbd)
Novation drumstation
Novation KStation
Korg Triton Studio
Korg Triton Rack
Korg MS2000
Korg Z1
Korg Ex-8000
Korg Wavestation
Oberheim Matrix 1000
Oberheim Matrix 12
Roland system 101
Roland Jupiter 8
Roland Jupiter 6
Roland MKS-80
Roland MKS-70
Roland TB-303
Roland TR-909
Roland TR-808
Roland JD-800
Roland Juno 106
Roland JP-8080
Roland XP-60
Roland XV-5080
Roland A-70
SCI Prophet VS
Yamaha AN1x
Yamaha AN200
Yamaha DX200
Yamaha Motif

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

i hate to say it but you have owned (or still own) far too much gear.

you cant have touced on even a hundredth. even a thousandth of what just a handful of those synths are capable of.

and that really is a shame.