Ok, here is a question and it may be slightly controversial so I am wearing my finest asbestos underpants...

The situation is this, I am looking to make Demos and prepare non-live radio mixes on my PC using Ableton.

I have tried that beat warping thing and it is doing my freaking head in. I have read the manuals. I am missing something that is probably pretty darn obvious but not sure what.

And yes I have used search, yes I have gone through the tutorials, yes I probably am thick...

I just need to know the settings before you warp and just a small walkthough on how some of you guys do it?

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As a side note.
Something that pisses me off incredibly is the snobbery that comes from a lot of Ableton Jocks. I know that this does not apply to all of you but there is a clique out there who have happily leached off the input of regular DJs for years and now are turning your noses up at the requests of less technically minded guys like myself.

If we constantly responded with "Read 'Learn how to DJ properly'" then you would think we were a bunch of arrogant dickheads, you get the picture?

My main point is that I have not seen any Ableton (Or other Digital DJs rise to the point where they contribute anything to enrich the experience on the DJ Booth.

Perhaps even a sticky related to digital DJing. Sadly at this stage I am not in a position to start as I don't have the knowledge. But I know some of you have.

If you want to flame me fine but please try and see my point before you do so.

Regards
Nem

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STUPID NOOB READ THE MANUAL OK!!? ITS IN THERE!





...
Maybe upload a screenshot of the warp markers and such because i know there was this problem i had but im not sure how to describe it. It is confusing at first but once you figure it out and get the hang of it, then it will become easy.

Hey nem,
I'm no ableton pro but after u set the markers on the first 4 beats then set the tempo at the top. if u feel 1 song needs to be faster or slower u can press shift+forward/backword= pitchbend

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Originally posted by InMyPlace** Dancing is like invisible art. You're constantly creating masterpieces, each different, but each with a recognizable pattern. As quick as they're created, they disappear, forever. You may think you see the same thing twice, but each move comes with a different beat, a differetn emotion, a new burst... of life.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ 00 Tommy STUPID NOOB READ THE MANUAL OK!!? ITS IN THERE! ... Maybe upload a screenshot of the warp markers and such because i know there was this problem i had but im not sure how to describe it. It is confusing at first but once you figure it out and get the hang of it, then it will become easy.

I'll send you a screen shot.

Thanks
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Soliman Hey nem, I'm no ableton pro but after u set the markers on the first 4 beats then set the tempo at the top. if u feel 1 song needs to be faster or slower u can press shift+forward/backword= pitchbend

Definitely not the way to go. The whole point of ableton is to have the entire track warped, so you can mix in and out at will...and layer things on top of a track. The only way to do that is to make sure the entire track stays in time.

I read a thread on the abelton forums a few months ago and it helped me a good bit....here's the link.
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11736

I use a combination of all the ideas the guys were talking about in the thread. Not every track is the same as well...some take more work to warp.

Quick rundown of how I warp a track.
-Bring the track in and let it autowarp
-Ableton almost never gets the first beat right, so you have to zoom in and set 1.1.1 to the first beat.
- Then I go every 32 bars in the track and set a yellow warp marker.(position 33, 65, 97, 129 etc.) As you go through the track, make sure the marker at those locations falls perfectly on beat. Zoom in to get it right. Also use the metronome to spot check each section as you go through the track. The markers set every 32 bars also are a great visual help while mixing as well, since the phrases are all there for you. You can drop tracks in and out at those points.

Also, set the global quantization to 1 bar. This way, you can click on say, bar 32, anytime within the 4 beats before that point and ableton will start that track at the first beat of the next bar.

As with anything it just takes a little time to learn , and there are many ways to get a track properly warped. This method works for me everytime, and only take a couple minutes a track. The first few will take you a while but once you get the hang of it, they go more quickly. Once you get a few tracks warped and start to play around you'll see how powerful and how fun ableton can be.

Last edited by DjTez on May-09-2006 at 14:50

quote:

Originally posted by DjTez Definitely not the way to go. The whole point of ableton is to have the entire track warped, so you can mix in and out at will...and layer things on top of a track. The only way to do that is to make sure the entire track stays in time. I read a thread on the abelton forums a few months ago and it helped me a good bit....here's the link. http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11736 I use a combination of all the ideas the guys were talking about in the thread. Not every track is the same as well...some take more work to warp. Quick rundown of how I warp a track. -Bring the track in and let it autowarp -Ableton almost never gets the first beat right, so you have to zoom in and set 1.1.1 to the first beat. - Then I go every 32 bars in the track and set a yellow warp marker.(position 33, 65, 97, 129 etc.) As you go through the track, make sure the marker at those locations falls perfectly on beat. Zoom in to get it right. Also use the metronome to spot check each section as you go through the track. The markers set every 32 bars also are a great visual help while mixing as well, since the phrases are all there for you. You can drop tracks in and out at those points. Also, set the global quantization to 1 bar. This way, you can click on say, bar 32, anytime within the 4 beats before that point and ableton will start that track at the first beat of the next bar. As with anything it just takes a little time to learn , and there are many ways to get a track properly warped. This method works for me everytime, and only take a couple minutes a track. The first few will take you a while but once you get the hang of it, they go more quickly. Once you get a few tracks warped and start to play around you'll see how powerful and how fun ableton can be.

Spot on,
Thanks for this.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

Thanks alot this method seems alot more accurate than mine will try it when i get home sry i couldnt be of more help nem...

soliman

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quote:

Originally posted by InMyPlace** Dancing is like invisible art. You're constantly creating masterpieces, each different, but each with a recognizable pattern. As quick as they're created, they disappear, forever. You may think you see the same thing twice, but each move comes with a different beat, a differetn emotion, a new burst... of life.

my two cents, no offense if i am talking down to you (cuz not like I'm some super pro at this anyway)

first off: i hope you always double-check with your ears by clicking the metronome thing up top. at the end of the day, this is what matters...that it lines up by ear.

this is how i warp my tracks: (read the tips somewhere on ableton.com but can't be arsed to find out where anymore)

1) load tracks up
2) DO NOT USE AUTOWARP (well you can, but if it doesn't warp perfectly, might as well do it yourself)
3) set first marker
4) set relative tempo (either just guess or figure from first four/eight bars or whatever)

THIS IS THE DIFFERENT BIT:
5) hopefully things are relatively lined up; now go to the END OF THE TRACK. adjust from there and move forward. check the rest of track. this is counter-intuitive, but if this is why it works:

when you move markers in ableton, you'll notice it shifts everything before it. i.e. if you moved markers at measure 268, EVERYTHING before 268 will kind of shift. therefore, if you move from the BACK, it is less likely. there is some flaw to this logic, but from wherever I read it, it made sense.

This works for me 95% of the time; the rest of the time i end up having to set some permanent markers (double-clicking warp marker) and going from there. you may find that it continues to slip, but just keep setting permanent markers every 32 or 64 measures.

AGAIN, the best way to make sure things line up is by listening to the metronome as you play it. You don't have to be spot on visually to the bass kicks, etc...and not on every waveform do you have to be spot on. beatmatching aurally gives some area of leeway anyway....if it sounds okay to your dj ears...chances are it is. (<--this is why i am against digital dj'ing for people who have no idea how to dj otherwise...learning the basics of hearing two matched beats is the basis of dj'ing in my opinion)

hope this made sense and helps...if not, sorry. i just got off a long day at work on site.

EDIT: most of the previous ableton threads ask very general questions which can be found on their website, which is why most people bothered to help out (and just left blunt replies)....if there were more threads with specific questions, i'm guessing more people would be happy to discuss and maybe learn more too.

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Last edited by b i n k u n on May-09-2006 at 20:01

Hey Nem, here's my input.

I've been messing around with Ableton Live for a while and at first the Warp thing was very confusing as well. I'll tell you my way to do things (which in ways is very similar to previous posts).

- I have auto-warp off. In Live version 5, it is rather accurate, so what I do is press the Warp button and it will usually be nearly spot-on (in 90% of my beatport mp3s, he will be right on one condition: you gotta move it up .01. Which means, a track that Live will state as 127.99 is actually 128.0BPM. I type "128" and I adjust the marker to the first beat. Then I drag the marker to the beginning of it, the very first frame.
- I scroll to the end and see if it's still OK. In digital mp3s, apart from "special" tracks that were edited, you'll only need one marker the whole song. Scroll to the last bars and see if it's still holding. If it's just a matter of one or two nudges, do it, and see if at the beginning they're still together that way (usually they even get better-> USE THE METRONOME. That way they'll always be in sync between eachother.)

At the moment I can wrap most tracks under a minute. There are still difficult ones but they're getting easier. I'm warping around 20-30 tracks a night. Ow, and it actually helps to know how to beatmatch (I know that's not a problem for Nem anyways) as you have to sync it with the metronome etc.
Hope I've helped! Good luck!

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Please visit my website www.djbammer.com and download the monthly mix! Thanks!

dont give in to digital nem. that leads to the darkside

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN dont give in to digital nem. that leads to the darkside

haha true. i've only taken Live seriously for 1 month or so, and in a way it's very good, it redefines your "skills" (I was and to a degree still am against "digital mixing"). Beatmatching or phrase-matching is not what it's about now, that's guaranteed, it's about copying/pastying, making cool loops, mostly the creative part i guess, not as much technically. Since i can plug it to my mixer, it has positively revolutionized the way I mix (I was getting bored, now i have a new toy hehe).

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Please visit my website www.djbammer.com and download the monthly mix! Thanks!

I only saw ableton recently for the first time, and I like it. Can't help Nem, but wanted to ask what you guys think of the cross-fader. It just seemed a bit 'bang' there it is to me, and not so much of a fade. Mind you I was only observing, so it may have been the users method. So what's it really like?