I guess a lot of people really do want downtown Toronto to become a ghost town. Just another catalyst on the road to the Detroitization of Toronto.

Sad... very very sad.

Toronto is in big big trouble and the worst part about it is that not many people realize it yet.

quote:

Most In Favour Of Toll Roads If It Means Solving Gridlock Friday November 10, 2006 They used to be the dirtiest words in all of politics - "toll roads". Three years ago, when David Miller merely broached the subject out loud, he almost lost his lead and the election. But that was then. Now voters seem more amenable to the once taboo topic, with a Decima Poll indicating 45 percent of constituents would agree to pay for the kilometres on certain streets and highways if it meant reducing gridlock overall in T.O. Still, it's hardly unanimous. Another 42 percent of respondents were opposed to the idea, while 12 percent were undecided. The new City of Toronto Act means City Council has the right to collect taxes on roads, but ahead of Monday's election all three of the major mayoral candidates were either opposed to or cautious about the controversial idea. "I'm not in favour of anything that is going to be an extra tax or charge, and I think right now we have a responsibility to fix our roads with the budget money that we have," said candidate Jane Pitfield. "We just have to get started and we're $300 million behind, so we need a ten-year plan, $30 million a year. Get it done so we don't have roads collapsing." Stephen LeDrew was willing to at least consider the idea if it helped to clear up congestion on the highways. "I don't think Torontonians want to pay a toll necessarily, but if it's going to be effective against gridlock and if it's going to be only on the major roads, for instance, like the Don Valley Parkway or the Gardiner, they may very well want to fork it over just to reduce gridlock and to put money towards public transit," he said. Miller appears to have learned his lesson from the 2003 campaign, contending they're not fair to people who live in suburban areas without access to public transit. Like the poll, the public seems equally split. "I think that anything to help lessen the traffic around here would help," feels driver Jelena Hrabar. Others think the idea is nothing more than an outright cash grab. "I'm tired of paying money for anything else other than necessary things, things I need," grumbles a motorist named Angelo. It's not that toll roads are being given such a ringing endorsement. It's simply that they're being considered at all by so many that's the biggest surprise. No matter who wins on Monday, it's not likely that the idea will go very far. But if the trend remains, it could be in the minds of those who run for office four years from now - when gridlock will likely be even worse.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Then we'll really get a song called

Put your hands up for TO




im against tolls, i never carry a dime on me, and getting stopped in the middle of the highway is a pain in the ass.

I also disagree in having to pay to take the 407. I dont know any other pay roads in canada (mind you i only been in ontario, quebec and new brunswick...)

other provinces are able to fund their transportation systems, why cant TO do it ?

if they go toll i go calgary

tolls to get inside a north American city, what a stupid stupid idea. No one will bother come downtown to shop, dine, or enjoy any cultural activities. In Europe its understandable, they have narrow streets not designed to accommodate cars, but here where mass transit is so crappy and city are designed for cars??

It'll be the nail in the coffin, already there's so many things to discourage people from coming downtown (park meters, criminality, no parking spots, ...) now add a toll to enter downtown.

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[/IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/ngycqo.png[/IMG]

wow! What are they thinking, seriously?
Don't taxpayers already pay enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy if they go toll i go calgary

my bro is moving there next week. You and him would get along well.

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Whatever happened to visionary politicians? Why not build a great infrastructure so the GTA and country can grow responsibly and a bit more spread out? So people don't HAVE to live right near Toronto and cause congestion.
Why do we have a Transit system that sucks compared to Europe and Asia? Why does every town have one or two different transit systems that don't integrate with the next one?
Lets not encourage people to come to Toronto anymore and create another Detroit.
Why do our Politicians suck and lack any sort of true leadership?
All they can think of is lets raise the taxes and make life even more difficult and expensive than it already is.
I really expect more from this country. I really feel we're not living up to our potential sometimes.

Phew....that feels better.

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Is it Saturday yet??

This is something of a Catch 22. Nobody wants to pay tolls, but nobody wants the tax increases that are necessary to build the infrastructure needed to improve public transit. If you want better infrastructure, who's going to pay for it? Leave it private hands? I think after the fiasco that's been the 407, the government will be very hesitant to go that route. I know that Jayx is a huge fan of private and PPP programming, however, these systems don't work when the private entity rips the public off (as the organization that runs the 407 recently was convicted of).

Using the gas tax would be a good start, but it isn't nearly enough. Pitfield has been campaigning on a promise to expand the subway lines at $100 million/km. She obviously hasn't done her homework, as a quick examination of the books on the Sheppard line reveal that the project will cost 5-10 times that amount. Sounds like a great campaign promise, but isn't anywhere near reality. Additional revenue is needed, but it doesn't matter what is suggested, everybody is going to hate it because it will amount to a new tax.

By the way, public transit in Toronto is VERY good. Go out to cities like Guelph and Kitchener and you'll realize how much better the TTC is.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter This is something of a Catch 22. Nobody wants to pay tolls, but nobody wants the tax increases that are necessary to build the infrastructure needed to improve public transit. If you want better infrastructure, who's going to pay for it? Leave it private hands? I think after the fiasco that's been the 407, the government will be very hesitant to go that route. I know that Jayx is a huge fan of private and PPP programming, however, these systems don't work when the private entity rips the public off (as the organization that runs the 407 recently was convicted of). Using the gas tax would be a good start, but it isn't nearly enough. Pitfield has been campaigning on a promise to expand the subway lines at $100 million/km. She obviously hasn't done her homework, as a quick examination of the books on the Sheppard line reveal that the project will cost 5-10 times that amount. Sounds like a great campaign promise, but isn't anywhere near reality. Additional revenue is needed, but it doesn't matter what is suggested, everybody is going to hate it because it will amount to a new tax. By the way, public transit in Toronto is VERY good. Go out to cities like Guelph and Kitchener and you'll realize how much better the TTC is.

yes.. compare a (supposed) world class city to guelph and kitchener. LOL!!

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

NOOOOOOO...

Tolls are the one thing I hate the most...

Tolls = Lots of side road driving...

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"I'm not stoned...I'm just Asian!"

tolls = i wont come downtown unless absolutely necissary.

tolls = final death knell for the club industry among other downtown businesses.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

What's happening here of course is that we're a tiny population in the second biggest country in the world. In Beijing they're adding something like another 5 to their already 4 or 5 subway lines all in time for the olympics! Same in Europe (Holland) where the Transit sysytems are all integrated through out the country. I live in Markham where we have (some) TTC, Go Transit, York regional transit (or something) and now they've added VIVA. All very cool but you need four different tickets for four different services. It's STUPID. Why don't they just integrate everything and call it GO transit? One ticket, one pass, everything integrated. Just makes too much sense for our political system.

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Is it Saturday yet??

because people here have no vision. politicians are focussed on building condos so they can get more tax money. anything else is bothersome to them.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill