quote:

Putin Compares Democracy to a Glass - Half Full or Half Empty No state in the world has ever had pure democracy, Russia’s President Vladimir Putin said as quoted by Interfax. “It is always an issue of political evaluation and desire to see a glass – half full or half empty,” Putin said during a news conference held in time of Russia’s-EU summit in Samara. Asked if he is “a pure democrat,” Putin doubted that any purity could be mentioned in this relation. “Scrubbing any Russian good and proper” will lead to a Tatar, the president recalled the proverb to illustrate that there are no “pure Russians” at all. Earlier, Putin made clear his attitude to Dissenters Marches, saying they don’t disturb him. At the same time, German Chancellor Angela Merkel emphasized her concern that some people were prevented from reaching the place of the summit. Merkel hoped they would be able to express their opinion in any case. Early on Friday, leaders of the Other Russia coalition of opposition - Garry Kasparov and Eduard Limonov - and right advocate Lev Ponomarev were prevented from leaving Moscow for Samara to join the Dissenters March, which is timed to the summit of Russia and Europe there. According to some sources, the opposition chiefs weren’t allowed to set aboard of plane, as police doubted validity of their tickets.

Putin Compares Democracy to a Glass - Half Full or Half Empty


This guy did some good things for Russia in his early days of presidency. But with the time passing something has changed, what I see now happening there doesn't look good for me at all.

A government without dissent is not a democracy at all.

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So you are no longer a Putin apologist becaue of this one incident?

While I commend you on finally seeing that the Russia of Putin is not this great benevolent state, there have been clear signs of the Putin government's autocratic goals for a long long time.



MrS

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Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

Well, I don't know what was clear long long time ago, if you mean all those murders of journalists or for any reason a case of Litvinenko, I still think Putin/Goverment has nothing to do with it.

Acutally what happened yesterday or a month ago at marchs in Moscow, St. Peterburg and N.Novgorod don't make me think that it was a solely Putin's descion. He has nothing to scare or loose, he is not going on a 3rd term anyway.

I just think he has no clear control on what's going on in the country. I think all people underneath him for some reason think that they have to obey his command, that's why police forces were using an excessive amount of force.

Russia has still so much of an autocratic Soviet Union.

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller Well, I don't know what was clear long long time ago, if you mean all those murders of journalists or for any reason a case of Litvinenko, I still think Putin/Goverment has nothing to do with it.

No, the murders of journalists, while fishy and likely done under the consent, if not the orders of the Putin government, happened long after it was clear that Putin was not interested in a free society.

The key to a free society is a free press, as soon as he started closing press outlets that were critical of him and consolodating the available press outlets under the control of those loyal to him, it was clear that there was something definitely fishy going on.

The U.S. may not have the best track record in recent years of the press being responsible, but it is still possible for people to have access to information that the government might not want them to. There has not been that kind of access in Russia since the first year of Putin's tenure.


MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel No, the murders of journalists, while fishy and likely done under the consent, if not the orders of the Putin government, happened long after it was clear that Putin was not interested in a free society. The key to a free society is a free press, as soon as he started closing press outlets that were critical of him and consolodating the available press outlets under the control of those loyal to him, it was clear that there was something definitely fishy going on. The U.S. may not have the best track record in recent years of the press being responsible, but it is still possible for people to have access to information that the government might not want them to. There has not been that kind of access in Russia since the first year of Putin's tenure. MrS

Well I don't see any signs of mr. Putin not to be interested in a free society in Russia. His popularity rating breaks all high records. People see in him a leader and the future of stable Russia (you wouldn't want to know how was it there back in 1998 or before). Thus I don't see any point for him to be scared of any opposition or anything like that. Even recent events with the Dissidends marchs don't change much an opinion of an average Russian about their president. Stability and prosperity are much more important for them right now.

It's wrong again to say that Putin is responsible for consolidating the available press outlets. First of all, there are free press outlets in Russia right now. Examples: http://www.kommersant.ru, http://www.echo.msk.ru/. They are not being held by state owned corporations, they are very easy to critize the current goverment.

Secondly, it's corporations who buy mass media outlets because they have enough money to do so. Of course they are loyal to the government, but it wasn't Putin who's ordered them to buy free press. Don't start saying that Russia is prohibiting foreign investments into this sector. They have much easy rules and regulations than for example in the US for doing this.

I don't like the way things going too. Big corps have more money to bid and thus outpacing all small Russian-based investors. State channels like ORT/RTR are simply ridiculous to watch. The quality of news (prejuidce) is on the same level as on FOX channel.

I'd like to give Russia more time. People were living in povetry 6-7 years ago. As I said their concern was to have a stable economy and reasonable salaries. Everything is changing, many people have those things now, so they have time to think about the enviroment they live in.