Did you have a wank when you heard this news?!

It's been coming for a long time, very sad and pathetic in a way.

What do you think the causes are Firestarter?

Personally I think the main reason is the lack of funding for the PA, it's driven people to desperation. But then Hamas and Fatah have been mortal enemies since Hamas arrived on the scene (and should be a lesson to everybody not to lazily lump Arab militants into one harmonious group like America did before the Iraq war!)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Personally I think the main reason is the lack of funding for the PA, it's driven people to desperation. But then Hamas and Fatah have been mortal enemies since Hamas arrived on the scene (and should be a lesson to everybody not to lazily lump Arab militants into one harmonious group like America did before the Iraq war!)

read power struggle.

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Originally posted by Omega_M read power struggle.

True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

I think Hamas was voted in for the wrong reason.

People viewed them as heroes for their obvious involvement with removing Isreal from Palestine but evidently, that view was shortsighted since they seemingly 'forgot' that Hama's agenda ultimately includes Isreal's destruction.

Why should anyone be surprised be any of the current actions of Hamas, etc.?

Good luck to them trying to get rid of Hamas now if thats what it comes to...

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Originally posted by George Smiley True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

I would agree with that.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

If Hamas takes over, the Palestinians will just suffer even more. They will continue to attack Israel and provoke them to make more incursions and precision strikes. Hopefully, terrorism won't prevail.

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Originally posted by George Smiley True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

everything is (has been for years ) in place for there to be a viable state. hell, two damn states. gimme a frikken break.

nothing but misplaced sympathy and excuses. no shortage of that around here and around the world. do you think that is really whats needed FFS?

Only party that wins in this 'civil war' is Israel

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r I think Hamas was voted in for the wrong reason. People viewed them as heroes for their obvious involvement with removing Isreal from Palestine but evidently, that view was shortsighted since they seemingly 'forgot' that Hama's agenda ultimately includes Isreal's destruction.

Hamas has it's "core" support in Palestine just as every other political party in the world has it's core support. I think Hamas' core support vote for them for the reasons you mentioned but the reason they won is because the Palestinians were fed up with corruption in the PA (and the ruling Fatah party). Disillusionment with the prevailing government is a reaccuring theme within Arab nationalism. The ideology (like most of those brands of socialism) offer to modernise and implement policies for the social good. Unfortunately, they tend to go the way of authoritarianism and find it difficult to implement the policies they dreampt of. Cue the rise of Islamism - the next ideology promising to right societies wrongs (also Islam is usually turned to as a legitimising force by an Arab-Muslim population when faced with oppression etc)

I think Fatah probably went down the road of typical Arab nationalist regimes, and the Palestinian population went down the road typical of Arab Muslims.

Should point out Political Islam is not a problem in itself, only in the more extreme "al-Qaida" variety (which Hamas/Hizballah are not I dont think). The ideology of the White House, for example, could be compared to a lot of streams of Political Islam (and that's not a criticism btw)

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Originally posted by Q5echo everything is (has been for years ) in place for there to be a viable state. hell, two damn states. gimme a frikken break. nothing but misplaced sympathy and excuses. no shortage of that around here and around the world. do you think that is really whats needed FFS?

Thanks for that imput, you really helped the debate!

What do you define as a "viable state" and how is what you describe in place in Palestine?

Great.........

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EU resumes aid to Palestinian government Gesture of faith in unity coalition comes as shots fired on PM's offices CanWest News Services; with files from Reuters; Agence France-Presse Published: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 GAZA CITY - The European Union resumed aid to the Palestinian finance ministry yesterday, for the first time since the West launched an economic boycott of the Islamist Hamas government more than a year ago. But the gesture of renewed faith came amid more violence, including shots fired at the offices of the Palestinian prime minister, which cast fresh doubt on the future of the fragile unity coalition. Israeli and western officials reported that funds from Arab and European donors are being used to lift a 15-month embargo of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority. The funding is being released with the backing of the U.S. administration, prompting some Israeli officials to decry what they see as a shift in U.S. policy aimed at bolstering Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and currying Arab states' support.Mr. Abbas's secular Fatah faction joined a unity government led by Hamas three months ago. "The Palestinian Authority's financial position is much better today than six months ago. We are losing," said a senior Israeli official involved in overseeing the economic embargo imposed after Hamas defeated Fatah in a March 2006 election. Hamas refuses to recognize the Israeli state and is listed as a terrorist group by Canada and other western nations In the month since Washington said donors could send funds to Finance Minister Salam Fayyad through a Palestine Liberation Organization account, the account has received at least $160 million. The EU said yesterday it is renewing support for the Palestinian finance ministry, starting with a $5.3-million U.S. project to monitor the growing flow of donor funds. Diplomats said the EU is also considering expanding an existing aid mechanism to pay Palestinian police. Israel has objected to paying police because they technically fall under the Hamas-run interior ministry. Meanwhile, renewed Palestinian factional fighting killed 15 people in Gaza, bringing to 21 the number of people killed in the lawless territory since a new bout of internecine bloodshed between Hamas and Fatah erupted last week. "Everybody is shooting at everybody," a doctor at the Beit Hanoun hospital in the northern Gaza Strip said, hours after another Egyptian-brokered ceasefire collapsed. The series of truces have failed to end the strife in which more than 600 Palestinians are estimated to have been killed since Hamas came to power. The heavy fighting in Gaza also cast a shadow over the future of the Hamas-Fatah unity coalition, formed three months ago. In fact, yesterday, gunmen fired from nearby rooftops on the offices of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, forcing ministers to interrupt a cabinet meeting and flee. No one was hurt in the attack, which the government blamed on Fatah. Fatah denied its fighters were responsible for the shots. In spite of the violence and tensions, the EU agreed yesterday to pay the international accounting firm Ernst & Young to provide support and training of finance ministry officials in the territories. "This support for the ministry ... will help me ensure that we work in accordance with the best international standards, and that the government can give every Palestinian taxpayer the assurance that their money is being legally and honestly spent," the finance minister said. The EU, one of the biggest Palestinian donors, suspended direct aid to the Hamas government after last year's election.However, the European Commission decided to renew its assistance after Hamas formed a national unity government and appointed Mr. Fayyad, a political independent and widely respected economist. Despite the freeze on direct aid, the EU channelled $934 million of indirect support to the territories in 2006. Meanwhile, in advance of a visit to Washington next week and possible talks with Middle East power brokers in Egypt later in the month, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he was "prepared to renew talks ... at any time" with Mr. Abbas. Mr. Abbas cancelled talks with Mr. Olmert last week in a dispute over Israel's withholding of Palestinian tax revenues. A senior aide to Mr. Abbas said the president stood ready to meet Mr. Olmert any time -- once Israel released the money. Israel collects the funds on behalf of the Palestinian Authority on goods routed through Israel. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat says the total amount of money currently owed is $600 million. Israel transferred $100 million after a summit between Mr. Olmert and Mr. Abbas last December.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen...80-5048956e2c62

Look everybody wat's done by Israel

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Mr. Abbas cancelled talks with Mr. Olmert last week in a dispute over Israel's withholding of Palestinian tax revenues. A senior aide to Mr. Abbas said the president stood ready to meet Mr. Olmert any time -- once Israel released the money. Israel collects the funds on behalf of the Palestinian Authority on goods routed through Israel. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat says the total amount of money currently owed is $600 million. Israel transferred $100 million after a summit between Mr. Olmert and Mr. Abbas last December.

Damn apartheid

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