http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/st...n-attacked.html

quote:

Teen dead after alleged attack by father Last Updated: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 | 9:58 AM ET Peel Regional Police on Tuesday released the name of a 16-year-old Mississauga teen who died after allegedly being attacked by her father. Aqsa Parvez was found in her Longhorn Trail home on Monday morning without any vital signs. Paramedics managed to revive her and took her to Toronto's Sick Children's Hospital where she died late Monday night. Police said they received a call from a man who said he'd just killed his daughter. The victim's father, Muhammad Parvez, 57, was arrested at the scene. He will appear in court on Tuesday and face murder charges. Aqsa Parvez's friends told CBC News that the teen had been having arguments with her father because he allegedly wanted her to wear a traditional hijab. "She kinda wanted to go a different way from the way her family wanted her to go," said one friend. They also said that she wanted to escape the family conflict by running away. On the family's quiet street, neighbours were dismayed, calling the events "a tragedy." One neighbour said she was "praying for the family." At the teen's school, Applewood Heights Secondary School, grief counsellors have been called in and tributes are being arranged. "Aqsa was well-known at the school," said Sylvia Link, communications manager for the Peel District School Board. "She had a wide circle of friends and … those closest to her really are [the] most affected. But anyone at the school, you know our school is like a family, you know anyone at the school is really going to be shocked and saddened by this tragic news." Waqas Parvez, the victim's 26-year-old brother, has also been arrested and charged with obstructing police.

Yet another reason to hate on religion. Stuff like this never makes me question my faith but rather gives me the strength to be more active in educating Muslims as well as others on what the RIGHT interpretation of the rules are (according to the majority of Muslims on this planet).

So sad...

That is messed up!

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Originally posted by fayraree Stuff like this never makes me question my faith but rather gives me the strength to be more active in educating Muslims as well as others on what the RIGHT interpretation of the rules are (according to the majority of Muslims on this planet).

somehow im doubting most people of faith can grasp a notion as simple as god really not caring how you decide to clothe yourself. and if he does, he's gotta be the pettiest sonofabitch in the whole universe. it boggles the mind what some people are capable of because they have the word of god behind them.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN somehow im doubting most people of faith can grasp a notion as simple as god really not caring how you decide to clothe yourself. and if he does, he's gotta be the pettiest sonofabitch in the whole universe. it boggles the mind what some people are capable of because they have the word of god behind them.

the thing is, Quran does not tell how Muslims should dress.

The whole burqa and hijab and other sheejazz comes from Muslim interpretation of wanting to live like Prophet Muhammed and his Companions, thinking that's the 'purest' way to live. (forgot the Muslim term for this)

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by EvilTree the thing is, Quran does not tell how Muslims should dress. The whole burqa and hijab and other sheejazz comes from Muslim interpretation of wanting to live like Prophet Muhammed and his Companions, thinking that's the 'purest' way to live. (forgot the Muslim term for this)

semantics.

you cant separate the religion from the accepted practice of the religion. the practice IS the religion, for all intents and purposes.

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Originally posted by EvilTree the thing is, Quran does not tell how Muslims should dress. The whole burqa and hijab and other sheejazz comes from Muslim interpretation of wanting to live like Prophet Muhammed and his Companions, thinking that's the 'purest' way to live. (forgot the Muslim term for this)

Sunnah.

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Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I'm sorry to hear this fayraree.
It is nice to hear that some people within the Muslim community are willing to do something about it.

Hat's off to you my friend.

It truly is sad that some people feel they can't conform to Western society even a little bit.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN semantics. you cant separate the religion from the accepted practice of the religion. the practice IS the religion, for all intents and purposes.

it's not exactly accepted practice by all muslims. more of a cultural thing than religious thing, considering there's many variation of how hijab should be worn

there has to be some sort of ground for judging whether something is part of religion practice, or is it something that a person just decided to pratice based on personal preference

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

I just can't believe some people are so savage enough to murder their own child just to keep with the traditions of some unseeable and untouchable god. And it's shit like this that keeps pushing me away from religion further and further. Keep your gods you lunatics. I prefer to keep my common sense.

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Originally posted by EvilTree it's not exactly accepted practice by all muslims. more of a cultural thing than religious thing, considering there's many variation of how hijab should be worn

im sorry, but in the countries that enforce laws governing a woman's dress, the laws are derived from religion, or justified using religion.

i don't know why you always seem so willing to point the finger in any other direction than where is belongs. nobody is saying things are common across the entire muslim community, but there are countries that enforce these rules. and obviously, there are some families that (en)force these laws on their children.

it is based on loose talk in the koran about how a woman should dress. this is where your supposed "cultural thing" came from. not the other way round.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN it is based on loose talk in the koran about how a woman should dress. this is where your supposed "cultural thing" came from. not the other way round.

This is incorrect. The tradition of the hijab outdates the Qur'an by several hundred years. Women in the Persian and Arab world were wearing headscarfs during the 1st century BC at very least. Since the custom outdates the religion by a good 7 centuries I think it's safe to say this is a cultural custom rather then a religious commandment. Further to my point, the Qur'an contains only one referrence to the hijab, which essentially states that women should also use their headscarfs to cover their breasts. This would seem to suggest that the custom of covering the head was established and should be extended to the breasts but it does not say that either part MUST be covered. What we have in the states that now mandate such dress is a cultural custom that has been adopted as religious custom (much like Christmas trees, which were a cultural custom amongst the celts and was adopted as a religious custom amongst christians). This has more to do with culture then religion... this is especially evident considering that in many parts of the Muslim world one hardly ever sees a hijab and honour killings are all but non-existant.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

^^^excellent insight; I didn't even know that.

Furthermore, the Quran also refers to the proper dress of men in the same verse. In most cases, each verse of the Quran was revealed* in response to the current traditions and practices of society.

*-divine revelation: God --> Angel Gabriel --> Prophet Muhammad

For example, at the time, the dominant religion was idolatry. People would worship their idols while circling around the "Holy Ka'aba" (that black cube in Makkah that Muslims all over the world pray in the direction of) IN THE NUDE. My common sense tells me that due to such practices, there was a verse re: appropriate dress that implied it is morally wrong to walk around in the nude because of the indecent/inappropriate consequences.

Another example is that originally, at the time when the first revelation occurred, because most of society drank alcohol, this practice was not initially admonished. This, I believe, was a way to "ease" change into society. Eventually alcohol was forbidden once the Muslims realized the merits in doing so (but ultimately because it was commanded by verse).

To reiterate, these are examples of how religion was formed AROUND the culture and norms of the time, not the other way around. God isn't a jerk; I believe God is quite practical and understands what humans need in life and simply gives us a map of how to get through it. I digress.

The source for the above history is the "tafseer" which contextualizes each verse of the Quran using "hadith" (the Prophet's sayings and actions) and intense historical study which are all verified by multiple primary sources; all of which is by definition heresay, leading to the problems in interpretation and validity which give critics a pretty big stick.

I learned most of this stuff in Islamic studies when I was in Saudi and I actually have an international award-winning biography (award from a global council of Muslim scholars) on the life of Prophet Muhammad that will confirm some of this stuff...I'll try to find a link; it's an interesting read on the ancient history of the tribes of the Arabian peninsula and goes into painstaking detail about his family, and a step-by-step account of how Islam was born and evolved during and after his life.

EDIT:

The book is called "Ar-Raheeq Al-Makthum" (The Sealed Nectar) and surprisingly is fully available online:

http://www.islam4theworld.com/Sirah...khtum/index.htm

I haven't verified whether each line is consistent with the hard copy I have at home but this site seems to be a pretty good info source...just browsing through it right now.

Last edited by on Dec-12-2007 at 16:31