i tend to agree that we shouldn't support Israel simply because I don't believe that it is not in our national interest. unfortunately, Israel's position in the middle east is strategically important for american policy. Since the US government has made it clear that it intends to meddle in the affairs of those countries, there will always be potential for hostility. This is where our support for israel becomes important. Israel, clearly, is the enemy of every arab state. Our backing of Israel is our first offense in any potential conflict with Arab nations. Whether the government will say that much is irrelevant.

I would argue even further that our government needs to take the swiss approach to foriegn policy. we desperately need to stop trying to be the moral compass for the world. I'm sure a majority of americans could care less if iraq is democratic. Furthermore, not one person would honestly sacrifice their son to meet that goal. what we built took hundreds of years and we can't expect that we can impose it on people, who have no history of our variety of society, and expect them to fully embrace it without problems. our government's role, first and foremost, is to provide for the people of this country. we are not the arbiter of the world's disputes and we should stop trying to be such. contrary to what some ridiculously misinformed Americans think, the rest of the world is not jealous of Americans and their hatred of us doesn't stem from that. if we stop intervening in issues that don't involve us, people will stop hating us.

obviously oil has a major role in all of this. this is why we need to embrace alternative fuels, regardless of the expense.

i think anyone quoting scripture in relation to politics should be sent to a rubber cell.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think anyone quoting scripture in relation to politics should be sent to a rubber cell.

LOL! Damn, you beat me to saying the exact same thing.

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think anyone quoting scripture in relation to politics should be sent to a rubber cell.

Did I use it to prove a point? No. I simply stated that it freaks me out that that scripture basically says that the man who brings peace to the Middle East is essentially the most evil man on earth. Are you so insensitive, that you can't even stand the mere mention of religious text?

Anyways, who cares what you think about religion? We all know you hate it. How about the main points of this thread? The Zionist alliance? Do you have anything to say to that? Or is this just going to turn into another "I hate religion" thread? Face it, religion is engrained in all facets of life, politics included.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 obviously oil has a major role in all of this. this is why we need to embrace alternative fuels, regardless of the expense.

The US has a lot of oil in reserves the only reason the US likes ME oil is due to it's high quality also because the US government enjoys making enemies.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think anyone quoting scripture in relation to politics should be sent to a rubber cell.

So you acknowlege that the hypocritical claim by secular Zinoist Jews to Israel. "the holy land" (now why the fuck should that make a difference to a secular individual?),a reality that necessarily relies on theft, coercion, military aggression, terrorism, expansion, and violation of international law as a means is complete and utter nonsense right? Or does your 'centrist' ass love hypocrisy and double standards that much?

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru The US has a lot of oil in reserves the only reason the US likes ME oil is due to it's high quality also because the US government enjoys making enemies.

???

I'd call this a "Mystery Post"; Nothing about it makes sense. Hence, it's a total mystery.

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Did I use it to prove a point? No. I simply stated that it freaks me out that that scripture basically says that the man who brings peace to the Middle East is essentially the most evil man on earth. Are you so insensitive, that you can't even stand the mere mention of religious text? Anyways, who cares what you think about religion? We all know you hate it. How about the main points of this thread? The Zionist alliance? Do you have anything to say to that? Or is this just going to turn into another "I hate religion" thread? Face it, religion is engrained in all facets of life, politics included.

The answer to your question lies in your own religious beliefs;

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Originally posted by Krypton ...What is the reason for such blind support for a foreign country thousands of miles away? There sure isn't any trade, or strategic objectives large enough to justify such support. It's because of Evengelical Christianity and Zionisms unholy alliance much like the crusades of the Middle Ages. It is not logic, or rationality. It is religion.

"unholy alliance"?

I blame both sides in the middle-east for these absurd wars that they have going on over there. They're all based on "scripture" and "god" and "holy land".

I've actually come to the belief that religion is a GOOD thing for mankind. It's a form of population control, in the sense the you dumb-ass religious zealots just love to start wars over this crap, and that results in wiping more of you off the planet.

So please, gripe away about the "Zionists"...and then go over there and fight them...and die. The sooner the better.

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco I blame both sides in the middle-east for these absurd wars that they have going on over there. They're all based on "scripture" and "god" and "holy land".

Actually, no. The "other" side happen to be the native indigenous population, the real semitic Palestinians, Chrisitans, and Jews living in the region. Not your Ashkhenazi European / Slovic immigrants. By that logic, I guess you blame the native American Indians for being virtually extinct too?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco The answer to your question lies in your own religious beliefs;

You just hit the circular reasoning button. . .

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"unholy alliance"?

Well, have you heard what evengical leaders like Pat Robertson say that christians (USA) and jews should come together for Israel as if such an alliance is divinely inspired?

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I blame both sides in the middle-east for these absurd wars that they have going on over there. They're all based on "scripture" and "god" and "holy land".

I blame the occupier for the failed state disaster of the Palestinians. Until the occupation ends, Israel will never have peace.

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So please, gripe away about the "Zionists"...and then go over there and fight them...and die. The sooner the better.

Is that a wish of death?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z So you acknowlege that the hypocritical claim by secular Zinoist Jews to Israel

of course, in so far as it relates to their "right" to the "holy" land.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Did I use it to prove a point?

haha, of course not.

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Originally posted by Krypton I simply stated that it freaks me out that that scripture basically says that the man who brings peace to the Middle East is essentially the most evil man on earth.

you know what freaks me out? sauron in lord of the rings. dont see me mentioning him in regards to contemporary politics though.

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Originally posted by Krypton Are you so insensitive, that you can't even stand the mere mention of religious text?

no, im just at a complete loss as to what relevance you seem to think it has in politics (other than helping to explain current problems and attitudes). i think the quoting of prophetic christian scripture to be completely retarded, which is why i said what i did.

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Originally posted by Krypton Anyways, who cares what you think about religion?

last time i checked - YOU made this thread about religion einstein. i certainly didn't click on this thread expecting some superstitious bullshit oozing out of the seams. i also wanted to see whether this video is of a higher standard than the usual nonsense you become infatuated with. alas i wont know until after work (the fact that its BBC though lends me some hope).

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Originally posted by Krypton How about the main points of this thread? The Zionist alliance? Do you have anything to say to that?

there's no doubt a religiously-based zionist influence in the US, but to argue that's the only reason the US is in bed with israel just isnt credible.

i find it rather ironic that you criticise the US' relationship with israel along religious lines, and then post some bollocks prophecy stuff that only the most crazy nutjobs believe.

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Originally posted by Krypton because of Evengelical Christianity and Zionisms unholy alliance much like the crusades of the Middle Ages.

as per usual, i find your understanding of the situation completely one-sided and overly-simplistic.

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Originally posted by Krypton Or is this just going to turn into another "I hate religion" thread?

again, you made it so with your idiotic contribution

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Originally posted by Krypton Face it, religion is engrained in all facets of life, politics included.

there's a difference between understanding the role that religion plays in the world and actually arguing that some kind of scripture is "compelling" for an argument related to the anti-christ or in any way holds relevance to the current state of affairs in the "holy" land.

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