First: i used the search button. even though i know this topic has been talked about significantly here, i did not find any help through the previous threads.

how do you all key your records? im looking for osmething quick because ive got a lot of records to key, and i dont just key one mix, but every mix on every record. i used to have quite a bunch of them keyed but my harddrive crashed and i lost the printout, and only some ofthe records had the information actually written on th record. so ive got a lot of songs to key.

the way i used to do it was to record the track to my computer and used a program like mixmeister or something like that i cant remember to 'auto detect' the key of the song. i know the 'auto detect' method was never 100% but it definetly as reliable as my human error would probably be, and much faster.

by doing this method couldnt i just record the first minute of a song or whatnot and key it off that without having to record the whole song, as this would cut down the time significantly (i dont see any reason why it would matter to just do a good portion of it opposed to the whole thing but this forum is here for a reason, eh!?)

what programs do you all use to detect the key signature? is there any hardware out there that will 'key' a record live like 'auto bpm counting' features? im not looking for a whole mixer with this functionality, more some type of hardware i can put between my music input/output lines and do it that way live and i could just mix songs naturally and peek at the little gadget and have a good call of the key. but really im curious as to how you all do it? im not too keen on the pulling a keyboard out and crunching the chords out and all that, thats too much time/concentration for the amount of records im wanting to do. thanks-

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Unity in Diversity-

quote:

Originally posted by ezbeats how do you all key your records?

I don't.

You should choose tracks based on what you think sounds together, not based on what some computer program thinks is good, IMO.

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Temporarily retired from the world of DJing.

i dont do it solely on keyed structure, but when i want to mix a track and the intro pretty much starts with a bassline all over, and the actual transition point im going to use is say.... 60 counts in, and i want to use the percusion part of the intro then the basslines will overlap and if they are bad keys for one another it sounds bad IMO. and i know, i can and do just use the eq's to try to mute the bass from the one that doesnt match it until the transition point im hitting it on is ready but really.... listen to a mix with solid key structure when that next track hits and the bassline explodes of the next track in that perfect note/key to match the outgoing track, its a whole lot more energy than many people give/dont give credit for. but thats just me....

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Unity in Diversity-

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aroun 70% accuracy. very useful tool when mixing.

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"The difference between insanity and genius is only measured by success"

your overdoing it, diffrent records are going to sound diffrently as far as audio quality and key. That is the purpose in developeing a record collection.

old examples
a nukleuz record is not gonna be the same as a lost language record.

however the more records that you buy the better the mix will be because you are not forceing records together.

just get a BPM count the BPMs on your records file them away, find a record that you like that you want to start your set with and build from there. when djing with cds or vinyl for instance you dont wanna manipulate the pitch too much.

like that project medusa vs exor record - old example but a very badass way to start a dj mix if your into that style of trance. it is probably 137BPM I could not tell you to speed it up or slow it down for some reason depends on the turntable. too me if I could find records that sound good at negative 35 then I would have an entire mix like that.

IMPORTANT PART
when I make a dj set I use ableton so I am importing various styles together and listening as I go to the transitions to find out what is the smoothest.

vinyl shoppers
hopefully when your buying vinyl you get to preview them first, meaning you can sit there and listen to the record in snippets to find out if it is good or not. most of the vocal stuff I play now I would never buy because it sounds kind of fruity. now if you have a record collection and you are wondering what record to play next trial and error. I'm sure a mix master can make a set on thin air and mix anything will it have a flow probably not, will it mix if done correctly. so practice and listen and see what sounds good.

certain labels go for certain styles for example a old school vandit track or PVD remix had that harder club style. then they started releaseing records like Casino wich had a grunger stoneface and terminal type sound. probably would not mix right or at all.

Here is another extract from a guide that I am writing and at this rate I am going to post the whole thing all over the place...

Also, don't buy into the 'just pick tracks' theory. Do what you would like to do!

If you need any help send me a PM and I can go into further detail on your specific questions.
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Harmonic mixing
Do I really need to do this? Well it depends on if you are comfortable with the idea that people who are not tone deaf thinking that your mixes sounds like arse from time to time.

This is actually one of the more debated subjects on Internet DJ forums. Just so you know, I approach this from the point of view that I am a Harmonic Mixer. I am a music producer too and this does have an effect on how I mix and hear things.

The more common anti HM arguments range from lines such as “I don’t want to DJ by numbers” or “I don’t want to restrict my mixing by being forced to play a track in a certain key”.
For many this may be a sound logic as there is a deep belief that there are many DJs that will play the right song for the right moment. I wont argue that point too heavily but you would have to ask yourself what factors make it the right song for the right moment?
There is also a belief amongst a few that they do HM without having to do the research as they have ‘Perfect Pitch’. Firstly perfect pitch is a very rare condition indeed and a lot of people who truly have this actually appear to have trouble perceiving or hearing harmonies as they will inevitably hear the root note. What people may be referring to in these instances is actually tone recognition are at least the ability to hear when two tones are not compatible, which is a far more common skill especially amongst musicians, but increasingly in DJs too.

Harmonic Mixing can be referred to as DJing by numbers if you keep in mind that writing music is composing by numbers. Music is very mathematical and is by no means a random act of creation. In a similar way it would be reasonable to suggest that the same rules can be applied when mixing this music that is mathematical. The same reason you may decide to put to harmonious notes together in a song should in theory be the same reason why you might decide to mix that way i.e. it sounds good!

For the ones who state that they feel restricted by this, one would have to argue that this could be more a case of burying your head in the sand and hoping that it will go away. How can having all the different keys presented to you be considered restrictive? You will know what works in terms of key and what doesn’t, you will be able to perform the placement of vocals and live mashups with more pleasing results a lot quicker than if you have to keep working out what sounds right and what doesn’t by testing it. Or worse still, not being aware of the fact that what you are doing actually sounds pretty terrible.

I would also be prepared to state that a Harmonic Mixer will have a better connection with the music on the whole as he/she actually understands what is going on. Not to mention the fact that, if you are musically minded you may find it a lot easier to beat match as you are not fighting key clashes which some people can find quite distracting.

There are plenty of ways to do this and there are some discussions as to what the correct ways of doing it are. A simple rule of thumb as with all DJing is that if it sounds good then it’s right. As long as you keep in mind that I am not giving you the holy grail of mixing that will make you a DJ god, but rather a tool that will make you a better DJ.



So “Where do I begin?” I hear you say.
Contrary to popular belief, HM does not require masses of musical knowledge and years of experience as a musician, but neither can hurt.

You could go to a website that has done all of the donkey work for you and just find the keys to your tracks that way, but I would be of the opinion that you are cheating yourself if you do that and will not be fully appreciative of what you are getting in to.

What you need first of all is a keyboard or guitar, or something with western musical notation, assuming that you are not playing extremely ethnic music that uses micro tonality.
The instrument that you choose can be low budget, you don’t need anything that is flashy or over the top.

A DJ deck of some sort that is pitched to zero and music that is from the original source i.e. is played back at the speed it was recorded. This is where MP3s can become slightly tricky especially if it has been ripped out of a mix that may have changed the speed of the track. Depending on how much it was pitched it may create problems keying the track.

“Ok, so I am ready to key a track”!
Let’s pick a track. If you have it I would like you to listen to ‘Saltwater – The Legacy’. I have chosen this track as it has a nice clear intro that is quite easy to key.
What I would like you to do is to get your instrument of choice and wait for the bass line to come in after the drum intro. Once the bass line actually starts I would like you to start playing each note on your guitar or keyboard until you find one that seems to fit with everything that is going on. If you have found the C note (might be worth finding some explanations on the web) on your instrument you have found the root note of the track.
Usually the root note will sound good with all other chord changes and melodic instances that take place in the track because all of the music is built around the root.

In order for you to go to the next step you will need to make yourself familiar or at least have some documentation to follow with regards to the Major and Minor chords. You will need to know 12 of each, which might sound a little daunting but actually is fairly simple.

In this particular instance you would need to play both the C Major and Minor chords to decide which key the track is in. For this step I would recommend play when some more melodic elements have started to come in, as playing over the bass line alone can give some incorrect results as it may be the same root note repeated and this can sound fine with both Major and Minor chords which would be wrong.

Saltwater – The Legacy has a key of C Minor.

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I know it's a lot to read but go through the keyed tunes for harmonic mixers, between the odd arguement about the virtues of HM it does tell you how to key a track.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

Hi,

A large number of professional DJs use Mixed In Key software for Mac and Windows. Our official website is http://www.mixedinkey.com

Deep Dish, Pete Tong from BBC Radio 1, John Digweed, Blank & Jones, and 4 Strings are among the fans.

You may find the MIK Community useful as well. Check this forum for harmonic mixing ideas: http://community.mixedinkey.com There are lots of people who can answer your questions and help with anything related to this technique.

Yep, there is software, but it is my personal opinion that it is a false economy as keying software still produces questionable results at times and as a result the human ear is still more accurate.

The other thing that software can not achieve is the way in which you start to get a more intimate knowledge of your music as you will often find yourself playing along to the tracks, improvising. The whole experience is far more connected to the original artist and the appreciation you get is on a different level.

You acquire a new skill (if you don’t already play an instrument) and may even start to open doors to other things such as music production.

Whilst I recognise the efforts that mixed in key etc. put into this type of software I find it hard to recommend as it is depriving people of learning opportunities and a chance to get a deeper appreciation of what they are doing.

On this point I may not have the agreement of everyone on this forum but it is my opinion. It is by far, the better option to learn to key your tracks by ear.

As for the forums, rock on!, there are people there who know the score.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

It is by far, the better option to learn to key your tracks by ear.

Hey Nem,

I think that any method that encourages DJs to learn more about music is valuable. I used to key all my records by ear and it worked great. But eventually, keying music became a repetitive task because I already knew how to do it. Software made it faster and easier.

Software is a good tool to help DJs learn. After that, it's up to the DJ to learn more about music and go from there...

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Hey Nem, I think that any method that encourages DJs to learn more about music is valuable. I used to key all my records by ear and it worked great. But eventually, keying music became a repetitive task because I already knew how to do it. Software made it faster and easier. Software is a good tool to help DJs learn. After that, it's up to the DJ to learn more about music and go from there...

If you put it like that it would be hard for me to argue against you. I concur.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by DiscoStew I don't. You should choose tracks based on what you think sounds together, not based on what some computer program thinks is good, IMO.

+100,000,000,000
there are different styles of theory and scales that are not listed or mentioned in convectional western music schools of thought. if you have a trained ear just go by that....if your tone def let the computer do it or better yet DO NOT DJ.

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Digweed is not from this planet.

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Hey Nem, I think that any method that encourages DJs to learn more about music is valuable. I used to key all my records by ear and it worked great. But eventually, keying music became a repetitive task because I already knew how to do it. Software made it faster and easier. Software is a good tool to help DJs learn. After that, it's up to the DJ to learn more about music and go from there...

not that you have a vested interest in giving such advice

if a DJ cant key his own tunes then how's he meant to know when a computer program gets it wrong? i could key 2 tunes before my PC has finished with the windows loading screen. its far quicker and easier to do yourself, at least with vinyl.

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