quote:

Democrats allow drilling ban to lapse Party lawmakers decide to allow a long-standing ban on drilling for oil to expire next week, opening up the nation's coastlines for business. Last Updated: September 23, 2008: 6:55 PM ET WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democrats have decided to allow a quarter-century ban on drilling for oil off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts to expire next week, conceding defeat in a month-long battle with the White House and Republicans set off by $4 a gallon gasoline prices this summer. Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., told reporters Tuesday that a provision continuing the moratorium will be dropped this year from a stopgap spending bill to keep the government running after Congress recesses for the election. Republicans have made lifting the ban a key campaign after gasoline prices spiked this summer and public opinion turned in favor of more drilling. President Bush lifted an executive ban on offshore drilling in July. "If true, this capitulation by Democrats following months of Republican pressure is a big victory for Americans struggling with record gasoline prices," said House GOP leader John Boehner of Ohio. Democrats had clung to the hope of only a partial repeal of the drilling moratorium, but the White House had promised a veto, Obey said. Just last week, the House passed legislation to open waters off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts to oil and gas drilling but only 50 or more miles out to sea and only if a state agrees to energy development off its shore. Republicans called that effort a sham that would have left almost 90% of offshore reserves effectively off-limits. The Interior Department estimates there are 18 billion barrels of recoverable oil beneath coastal waters now off-limits. Lifting the drilling ban gives considerable momentum to the underlying bill, which includes the Pentagon budget, $24 million in aid for flood and hurricane victims and $25 billion in loans for Detroit automakers in addition to keeping the government open past the Oct. 1 start of the 2009 budget year. To top of page First Published: September 23, 2008: 6:29 PM E

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/23/new...dex.htm?cnn=yes

living pretty close to the coast I would be appalled to see an oil rig from the beach. However, it seems the new world order involves offshore drilling. I hope the states take the oil companies to task on the production rights. my question is: who owns the mineral rights to offshore oil? hopefully the state bordering the rigs. Anyone on this board know admirality law or mineral rights law?

cheap gas is always good news

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Originally posted by malek cheap gas is always good news

except when it delays the development of technologies that harness unlimited energy supplies. oh - and this will never reduce the price of gas because by time it comes to production demand will be far greater than it is today.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 except when it delays the development of technologies that harness unlimited energy supplies. oh - and this will never reduce the price of gas because by time it comes to production demand will be far greater than it is today.

that's the same argument democrats have been using for 30 years. "oh well, even if we start now it'll take 7 years to show progress.... blah blah blah talking point bloviate etc." It would be nice for us today if that process was underway 7 years ago in 2001, wouldn't it? There is more than enough untapped supply to meet the demand of the near future. Economics 101... more supply than demand and the price goes down. But I like to see the Democrats cave on drilling here, because the overwhelming majority of Americans support it.

They thought they could get a partial moratorium past the Republicans, one that would have kept drilling at least 50 miles off from shore... FAIL. Doesn't mean drilling will commence though...the states have to lease the lands as well as the federal government, and states won’t likely do so without revenue sharing. Dems tried blocking that in the Senate compromise, but that provided another point of failure for any compromise. Congress has to approve that action and right now it still appears that Dems want to use that to limit production.

Not only did Dems fail to achieve their broad policy goals, they failed on almost every specific goal they set in 2006. They failed to stop funding the Iraq war, they failed to impeach George Bush, and they surrendered on energy policy. Their only policy goal achieved — an increase in the minimum wage — came in a war-funding bill.

FAIL

worst Congress ever. epic fail

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Originally posted by The17sss that's the same argument democrats have been using for 30 years. "oh well, even if we start now it'll take 7 years to show progress.... blah blah blah talking point bloviate etc." It would be nice for us today if that process was underway 7 years ago in 2001, wouldn't it? There is more than enough untapped supply to meet the demand of the near future. Economics 101... more supply than demand and the price goes down. But I like to see the Democrats cave on drilling here, because the overwhelming majority of Americans support it. They thought they could get a partial moratorium past the Republicans, one that would have kept drilling at least 50 miles off from shore... FAIL. Doesn't mean drilling will commence though...the states have to lease the lands as well as the federal government, and states won’t likely do so without revenue sharing. Dems tried blocking that in the Senate compromise, but that provided another point of failure for any compromise. Congress has to approve that action and right now it still appears that Dems want to use that to limit production. Not only did Dems fail to achieve their broad policy goals, they failed on almost every specific goal they set in 2006. They failed to stop funding the Iraq war, they failed to impeach George Bush, and they surrendered on energy policy. Their only policy goal achieved — an increase in the minimum wage — came in a war-funding bill. FAIL

pretty typical short-sighted republican response. I could careless about reducing the price of gas. That's a smoke screen to appease the people. Reducing gas prices does nothing to attack the fundamental problem. We are playing a game of political russian roulette with most of the worlds limited petroleum supplies in the hands of unfriendly governments. We need incentives for americans to be innovative and create domestic sustainable supplies that is economically feasible. Traditionally, technology takes years to become economically viable. Energy is a special case since there is a huge infrastructure in place to produce and distribute our current energy supplies. The only way to break this futile cycle is for our government to fully back research and development of new sources. Opening more government land stalls that process because people are less likely to be displeased when they think we have more of our current resources. You really need to see the bigger picture. Pain isn't always a bad thing, it's necessary in many cases and it always teaches a valuable lesson. with that said, i'm not totally against offshore drilling, so long as the government revenue associated with the drilling directly supports R&D for domestic renewable sources (and so long as it is done safely and out of sight).

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 pretty typical short-sighted republican response. I could careless about reducing the price of gas. That's a smoke screen to appease the people. Reducing gas prices does nothing to attack the fundamental problem. We are playing a game of political russian roulette with most of the worlds limited petroleum supplies in the hands of unfriendly governments. We need incentives for americans to be innovative and create domestic sustainable supplies that is economically feasible. Traditionally, technology takes years to become economically viable. Energy is a special case since there is a huge infrastructure in place to produce and distribute our current energy supplies. The only way to break this futile cycle is for our government to fully back research and development of new sources. Opening more government land stalls that process because people are less likely to be displeased when they think we have more of our current resources. You really need to see the bigger picture. Pain isn't always a bad thing, it's necessary in many cases and it always teaches a valuable lesson. with that said, i'm not totally against offshore drilling, so long as the government revenue associated with the drilling directly supports R&D for domestic renewable sources (and so long as it is done safely and out of sight).

come on man, you know reducing the gas prices will get the ecomony rolling again... everything we buy from food to office supplies to clothing is affected by high gas prices. There is a huge infrastructure in place, yeah, but it runs at maximum output because a refinery hasn't been built in what, 25 years? Going after our own supplies here will create a shitload of american jobs too. We agree that we should stop spending money on energy from countries that hate us. I'm all for innovation and new creative ways to harness alternative energy, but why can't we do all of the above? With the creation of new refineries, nuclear plants, drilling, a significant amount of investment and job creation will happen which will benefit the development of alternative energy sources too. It doesn't have to be painful man... lets go with the kitchen sink policy

edit: hair splitting pet peeve of mine: when people say "I could care less" when it really should be "I could not care less"

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Originally posted by The17sss come on man, you know reducing the gas prices will get the ecomony rolling again... everything we buy from food to office supplies to clothing is affected by high gas prices. There is a huge infrastructure in place, yeah, but it runs at maximum output because a refinery hasn't been built in what, 25 years? Going after our own supplies here will create a shitload of american jobs too. We agree that we should stop spending money on energy from countries that hate us. I'm all for innovation and new creative ways to harness alternative energy, but why can't we do all of the above? With the creation of new refineries, nuclear plants, drilling, a significant amount of investment and job creation will happen which will benefit the development of alternative energy sources too. It doesn't have to be painful man... lets go with the kitchen sink policy

i agree to a certain extent (not on the economic part because i know that to be true - specifically, i agree on the diversified energy policy). but i have little faith in americans. americans are so short sighted and they need an extended price shock to wake them up. i'm afraid that reduced gas prices will drive them into complacency.

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Originally posted by The17sss edit: hair splitting pet peeve of mine: when people say "I could care less" when it really should be "I could not care less"

fair enough. adding the not disrupts the flow. while i try to be somewhat formal, since this is only the internet i tend to get a little lazy.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i agree to a certain extent (not on the economic part because i know that to be true - specifically, i agree on the diversified energy policy). but i have little faith in americans. americans are so short sighted and they need an extended price shock to wake them up. i'm afraid that reduced gas prices will drive them into complacency. Fair enough. adding the not disrupts the flow. while i try to be somewhat formal, since this is only the internet i tend to get a little lazy.

Yeah I agree, there is a creeping malaise amoung americans that comes in phases, and we do need a shock to the system to wake up sometimes. That is unfortunate, but in some way I understand that when you're balancing family with the daily grind of work, it's hard to put a lot of time into the concerns of the outside world. Younger people who are up and coming probably have more time to study that stuff and care about it.

Jerz, I must say, we haven't interacted 1 on 1 here before, although I've read many of your postings. You are more open minded than I thought... lots of people on here turn violent if you disagree with them but I'm glad you're not one of them (at least today...lol). Definitely makes the conversation more pleasant

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Originally posted by The17sss Yeah I agree, there is a creeping malaise amoung americans that comes in phases, and we do need a shock to the system to wake up sometimes. That is unfortunate, but in some way I understand that when you're balancing family with the daily grind of work, it's hard to put a lot of time into the concerns of the outside world. Younger people who are up and coming probably have more time to study that stuff and care about it. Jerz, I must say, we haven't interacted 1 on 1 here before, although I've read many of your postings. You are more open minded than I thought... lots of people on here turn violent if you disagree with them but I'm glad you're not one of them (at least today...lol). Definitely makes the conversation more pleasant

thanks...i try to truly keep an open mind. while my posts, admittedly, have a definite democratic slant, I always try to see all relevant sides. There are relatively few issues to which i will clearly object, one being the denial of proven science. Obviously (from my previous post on palin) I'm talking about evolution/creationism.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 thanks...i try to truly keep an open mind. while my posts, admittedly, have a definite democratic slant, I always try to see all relevant sides. There are relatively few issues to which i will clearly object, one being the denial of proven science. Obviously (from my previous post on palin) I'm talking about evolution/creationism.

I'm with you there... I'm a fervent evolutionist and think organized religion and its so called beliefs are a joke

Ok, so it won't be in affect for 7 years. So in 7 years gas prices will still be lower than they would be if the rigs weren't built