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Sonic_c
Heaven Scent



Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Midlands
Big melodies

I can write melodies after i have writtena chord seq using notes from the scale the song is in. My question is this I wrote a chord seq not using my piano programming it in in seq window. Problem is the chords are lovely but i dont know what scale they are in and I also cant seem to find the correct root note of some of the chords as i am not sure if the chord is a sus4 or triad etc depends which way you invert the chord. If you dont know what a chord is how do you know root note. What if the chords go out of scale is that allowed?

Im confused

Chilled version

How do you find the root note of a chord you do not know?
Do chords have to be in one scale?
If the melody sounds good but just uses any old notes can it be used is it in key?


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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

Old Post Dec-02-2008 21:34  United Kingdom
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airwalker1
Suspended User



Registered: Jul 2008
Location:

cant understand why you dont know the cord how did you write the riff patton ie what was the first note played?


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Old Post Dec-02-2008 22:07  United Kingdom
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

Why don't you post the notes that you are playing in each chord and we'll help you understand what chords they are, the inversions, what key it is in, the scales/modes that you should be using, etc. Be sure to tell us which note is the lowest in each chord so we can help you figure out the inversion.


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Old Post Dec-02-2008 22:19  United States
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Zombie0729
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2003
Location: .

music theory is just a guide to help you if it sounds good then it sounds good. there are many instances where you can jump out of a scale for a second but usually only if you resolve back to it.

take a pic of your piano roll(s) and we'll help you

Old Post Dec-02-2008 22:23  United States
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Subtle
Subreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Urban Shakedown

The scale is most likely the bottom note of the first chord.

Whatever though, if it sounds right, it is right.


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Old Post Dec-02-2008 22:47  Norway
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atxbigballer1
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Austin,Texas

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/


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Old Post Dec-02-2008 23:42  United States
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Sonic_c
Heaven Scent



Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Midlands



I think i know most root notes but only when i keep inverting until I have triad and of course then the bottom note is the root note. Some of these chords are not standard triads thats where my knowledge ends i am afraid. If i cant have root note i cant write bass, no bass no tune and so it goes on.


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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

Old Post Dec-03-2008 00:57  United Kingdom
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Subtle
Subreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Urban Shakedown

Im no expert, but the 2nd note of the first chord does not fit.

If you take that up or down one seminote you`d be on the key of E Minor.

i think


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Old Post Dec-03-2008 09:15  Norway
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Chronosis
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Málaga
Re: Big melodies

quote:
Originally posted by Sonic_c
What if the chords go out of scale is that allowed?


Get this track:

Art of Noise - Il pleure (At the Turn of the Century)

Beautiful example.


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Old Post Dec-03-2008 11:27  Finland
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Zombie0729
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2003
Location: .

A maj
G maj
E min
D sus4
C maj
D maj
not a chord (F# sus4 with no 5th) -- i bet this sounds weird
B aug

did those quickly so might not be 100%. i have to think your F#sus4 sounds off in this thing but who knows.

really this track is in A natural minor or C major with resolvent between the two.

Hope that was some help

Old Post Dec-03-2008 16:50  United States
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Sonic_c
Heaven Scent



Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Midlands

quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0729
A maj
G maj
E min
D sus4
C maj
D maj
not a chord (F# sus4 with no 5th) -- i bet this sounds weird
B aug

did those quickly so might not be 100%. i have to think your F#sus4 sounds off in this thing but who knows.

really this track is in A natural minor or C major with resolvent between the two.

Hope that was some help


Thanks so much exactly what i needed it actually sounds wicked IMO real nice sequence. Got a good lead too just struggling as i was unsure what was what.


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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

Old Post Dec-03-2008 19:29  United Kingdom
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

I'm seeing the following:

notes (bottom up) = chords

E/C#/A = Amaj (2nd inversion)
G/D/B = Gmaj
E/B/G = Emin
D/A/G = Dsus4
C/G/E = Cmaj
D/A/F# = Dmaj
B/F#/E = Bsus4
B/E/D = Bmin (w/added 4?) - this one's weird. It could be a second inversion of an Emin7 chord with the 3rd implied??? It's one of those cases where it depends on the context. My suspicion w/o hearing it is that it is simply a continuation of the previous chord, with the 5th (F#) resolving down to the third (D) and the fourth (E) suspended through the chord to give both a sense of resolution and tension.

It's hard to say what key it is in without hearing where it resolves, but it's definitely NOT in Cmaj or Amin. The F# is prominent throughout, so it's possibly in either Gmaj or Emin. However, that leaves the Amaj chord (containing a C#) as the odd non-harmonic chord. Typically, that would be something like a secondary dominant chord that would resolve to Dmaj (or perhaps Bmin or even another secondary dominant, such as Bmaj), but in this case, it's not resolving there. The other, more likely, possibility is that the progression has two sharps (F# and C# [from the Amaj chord]), making the song in either Dmaj or, more likely given the final chords, Bmin. That would leave the Cmaj chord as the non-harmonic chord built on a diminished ii note, which also doesn't fit "traditional" progressions (e.g., secondary dominants). That doesn't mean it's wrong or anything, it basically just means that you're "borrowing" a chord from a relative scale, not that uncommon in modern music and, if it sounds good, that's all that matters. That said, the final progression (Cmaj | Dmaj | Bsus4 | Bmin(sus4) OR II(dim) | III | i(sus)) does not seem like it would be a very strong progression for resolving to a Bmin. Hard to say without hearing it.

Now, if you could just post an audio example, we could hear where it resolves and that would probably confirm the key.


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Last edited by cryophonik on Dec-03-2008 at 20:46

Old Post Dec-03-2008 20:32  United States
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