I was doing some uni work on this and thought I would share this scale table i made for those who dont know.

Circle of fiths

M m m M m m Dim = M major, m minor, Dim diminished

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = Interval

7 - C#,D#,E#,F#,G#,A#,B# = C# MAJOR

6 - F#,G#,A#,B,C#,D#,E# = F# MAJOR

5 - B,C#,D#,E,F#,G#,A# = B MAJOR

4 - E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,D# = E MAJOR

3 - A,B,C#,D,E,F#,G# = A MAJOR

2 - D,E,F#,G,A,B,C# = D MAJOR

1 - G,A,B,C,D,E,F# = G MAJOR

0 - C,D,E,F,G,A,B = C MAJOR

-1- F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E = F MAJOR

-2- Bb,C,D,Eb,F,G,A = Bb MAJOR

-3- Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb,C,D = Eb MAJOR

-4- Ab,Bb,C,Db,Eb,F,G = Ab MAJOR

-5- Db,Eb,F,Gb,Ab,Bb,C = Db MAJOR

-6- Gb,Ab,Bb,Cb,Db,Eb,F = Gb MAJOR

-7- Cb,Db,Eb,Fb,Gb,Ab,Bb = Cb MAJOR

Chords

The numbers below refer to intervals in the scale

1,3,5 = Major triad

1,2,5 = Sustained 2 chord (Sus2)

1,4,5 = Sustained 4 chord (Sus4)

1,3,5,7 = add7 Chord

To make more intersting versions of these move the 1 (root) note up or down the an octave this is called a first inversion when you start moving other notes these are second and third inversions.

There are loads more chords but these are all I can confidently talk about for now.

At least now for those who do not know about scales etc or how to find root note as I didnt last week! this is a good reference point for someone starting out.


EDIT - I havent done the minor lesson yet in case anyone asks.

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

Last edited by Sonic_c on Dec-14-2008 at 22:52

Good chart. Playing the instrument and using movable shapes help realize this pattern (this is more obvious on guitar than piano, though).

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c EDIT - I havent done the minor lesson yet in case anyone asks.

i think minor the same layout, just starting from the 6th degree

so it would go

m m M m m M m


c# M = C#,D#,E#,F#,G#,A#,B#

the relative minor is
A# m = A#, B#, C#, D#, E#, F#, G#

harmonic minor is where you take the 7th degree and up it by half a step

Last edited by capricorn15 on Dec-13-2008 at 23:12

Ok can we turn this thread into a share what you know about theory because it would help so many. One thing I want to know is how in some tunes the big pad drop is real euphoric and moody and it builds and builds but then seems to gain energy as the chords are higher. Not an octave higer mind but just higher. These cant be just inversions or the harmonics would remain the same. Does anyone know what i mean. It could be a key change but does anyone know the theory behind changing the key of a trance song without sounding to out of place?

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c share what you know about theory

Change the title then.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Ok can we turn this thread into a share what you know about theory because it would help so many. One thing I want to know is how in some tunes the big pad drop is real euphoric and moody and it builds and builds but then seems to gain energy as the chords are higher. Not an octave higer mind but just higher. These cant be just inversions or the harmonics would remain the same. Does anyone know what i mean. It could be a key change but does anyone know the theory behind changing the key of a trance song without sounding to out of place?

IMO you make it sound like some supercomputer makes the trance tune

Not sure how many artists use music theory , but i know sasha is a trained pianist.Maybe its many?

But i would go that the guy sits there listening to the sample hundreds of times over to make sure it sounds right.But thats me and im still learning.

dont flame me if this isnt your way of thinking peeps

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How do those circle of triads help to make good chord progressions?
Also are they really needed because you can always write all you songs in Aminor/Cmajor and then just transpose them?

Ooooh if my music teacher heard you sat that he'd have kittens. Its needed as I found out when I asked him how do trance artists get those big euphoric chords etc. he immediately say down and played something that at the moment it would take me weeks to painstakingly write trial and error way.

Seriously the guy is currently writing a concierto for a PHD in music composition. He can play real nice chord seq's just without thinking I ask him how he said he learned theory!

I think if you dont know theory then the only way to write is trial and error which is how i do it. This method takes weeks sometimes to come up with some convincing chords. How easy would it be if I was my music teacher and I could sit and go 10 seconds euphoric chords and bam the composing begins!

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

Just play with the keyboard? Starting from chord a minor, the rest comes by itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Ooooh if my music teacher heard you sat that he'd have kittens. Its needed as I found out when I asked him how do trance artists get those big euphoric chords etc. he immediately say down and played something that at the moment it would take me weeks to painstakingly write trial and error way. Seriously the guy is currently writing a concierto for a PHD in music composition. He can play real nice chord seq's just without thinking I ask him how he said he learned theory! I think if you dont know theory then the only way to write is trial and error which is how i do it. This method takes weeks sometimes to come up with some convincing chords. How easy would it be if I was my music teacher and I could sit and go 10 seconds euphoric chords and bam the composing begins!

Um, yeah... the "circle of fifths" doesn't really have much to do with chord progressions, it's basically a mnemonic device for people to remember key signatures. I never even learned the "circle" - I already played the piano and scales and keys were stuff that we were just expected to know.

I'm not disparaging it or anything, it's all well and good as a teaching tool for people who haven't learned rudiments yet, but it's just that - a teaching tool, not a compositional tool. To suggest that it's the only alternative to trial-and-error (or even that it is a meaningful alternative by itself) is, well, silly.

Also, as much as I hate to admit it, offensive_newbi is correct - in this digital age, if you really want your track to be in a different key, you can just write it in whatever key you're comfortable with and tell your sequencer to transpose it. It's not how I work, but I can't honestly say I see anything wrong with it. I'm surprised to find myself saying that... guess I don't care about musical purity as much as I used to.

I dunno, sorry to be negative but I've seen so many of these "teach me theory in 30 words or less" threads that it's gotten kind of old. I'm all in favour of exchanging personalized rules or patterns people follow for counterpoints or chord progressions (although I suspect they tend to exist inside people's heads without ever being formalized), but that kind of thing can only be useful after you've already learned how to write bland baroque music on a crack high with one hand tied behind your back.

It's really, really hard to learn formal music theory in piecemeal fashion. That's why almost every theory program out there starts by drilling you with scales, then keys, then intervals, then chords, and doesn't even touch on melodies and harmonies until after you can remember the rudiments as readily as your own last name.

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Different positions on the piano can lead to different ideas being expressed because your hands naturally flow to different places. So it is worth occasionally playing outside of amin/cmaj.

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quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Different positions on the piano can lead to different ideas being expressed because your hands naturally flow to different places. So it is worth occasionally playing outside of amin/cmaj.

Well I agree with this. But the amin/cmaj is goot for a newbie. Yes the problem is that they always tend to flow to same places, but just being in a different key, maybe it helps? Also it is a good idea to uh start from f and establish the tonality around f and eh use lydian mode.

It is hard to come up with new creative chord progressions and melodies that are still euphoric trancy and sounds good and are not already heard in some other tracks.

As have been said many times. It is quite easy to come up with something that is average buut very hard to make something awesome!