It's not like Clockwork Orange would look nondated without the music. Those old movies are dated, period. That the music used in them sounds dated as well is just a logical consequence.

Fortunately, not to most viewers. I say leave the good stuff out of the movies.

___________________
Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

quote:

Originally posted by creon444 It's not like Clockwork Orange would look nondated without the music. Those old movies are dated, period. That the music used in them sounds dated as well is just a logical consequence.

But I think Kubrick's 2001, for example, has aged much better in spite of being made three years before Clockwork Orange, and I think at least part of this is attributable to the kind of music used -- leaving aside the fact that the popularity of 2001 turned Strauss's Zarathustra into a cliche. Of course the filming techniques make both movies look dated, but I'm interested only in the effect of the soundtracks.

But I don't think you could find an old movie with dated music in it that would all of a sudden seem less time-worn if you removed the music. Everything seems rusty in such movies.

There are "dated" sounds from every decade, i guess. In the 70s electronic music and synthesizers were much of a novelty, so you get all these rudimentary exercises that might have been cool and futuristic back then but perhaps do not really integrate with and help the films that much, and rather can be seen as distracting. In the 80s you have that more expensive-sounding, at times bombastic but ultimately plastic and still primitive sound where you go "hey, this is from the 80s!". Everybody got all these new awesome synths and used the same presets everywhere. In the 90s you get raw TB-303s, dry hedonistic dance beats and shit.

As you say, the use of electronic instruments and sound sources has matured over the years, in film music and in music in general. There are highs and lows everywhere. Many times what sounds dated or distracting can be a matter of context, type of movie etc. The retro and kitsch factors are not be underestimated, such aspects can be very valuable.

There are examples of artistically highly successful electronic scores, the most obvious example is Blade Runner, from the early 80s. It's one of those where i wouldn't want the music to be any different than it is, it never sounds cheesy to me. It's not only an integral part of the film but it also elevates it. It's not transparent, it wants to be noticed and it certainly doesn't sound like something from 2009, but it also has the more general traits of Vangelis' music which aren't specifically an 80s thing. It has (for us in 2009) some of the retro element but it also stands out together with the visuals as a unique vision of the future, ergo 'retro-future'. It stands alone in bubble of sorts that isn't our past, certainly not the present and probably not quite our future.

depends on the movie. if it where a movie from the middle-age or whatever it would be lol.

quote:

Originally posted by SMC There are "dated" sounds from every decade, i guess. In the 70s electronic music and synthesizers were much of a novelty, so you get all these rudimentary exercises that might have been cool and futuristic back then but perhaps do not really integrate with and help the films that much, and rather can be seen as distracting. In the 80s you have that more expensive-sounding, at times bombastic but ultimately plastic and still primitive sound where you go "hey, this is from the 80s!". Everybody got all these new awesome synths and used the same presets everywhere. In the 90s you get raw TB-303s, dry hedonistic dance beats and shit.

That's exactly the sort of thing I have in mind, the "have novel instrument, must use!" mentality that seems to have inspired some of the synth use in soundtracks. But then later it makes them seem like ridiculous victims of a trend.

Like you, I enjoy the Bladerunner soundtrack, although apparently some people put it in the same "plastic" category we have in mind. I remember reading an interview with Paul Lansky, the experimental computer musician famously sampled by Radiohead in "Idioteque":

quote:

Interviewer: Do you feel that the tried and tested orchestral scores for blockbuster film soundtracks should be making way for more digitally produced music? A case in point is Blade Runner, in which Vangelis produced an awe inpiring soundtrack that worked so well with the visuals. Couldn't the recent assault on The Rock have faired equally as well with the same kind of treatment instead of the usual Philharmonic Orchestra treatment? Lansky: I think that Hollywood has done a really crummy job using sound machines for soundtracks. I'm sorry to say that I did not like the Vangelis track. It sounded to me like the kind of plastic synthesizer music I've grown allergic to. I think that the use of real instruments in recent movies is a reaction to this kind of thing. It really got to sound cheap and artificial. Commercial synthesizers were used much too much. For one reason or another, the sound of synthesizer soundtracks has come to be associated with low budget films, and the sound of orchestras with high budget ones. Unfortunately the music is often no better in either, it just depends on the budget. There is often an underlying assumption in questions like this that machines are eventually going to take over the job of making music. I feel pretty confident that this is not the way things are going to go.

http://www.electronicmusic.com/feat...paullansky.html

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That's exactly the sort of thing I have in mind, the "have novel instrument, must use!" mentality that seems to have inspired some of the synth use in soundtracks. But then later it makes them seem like ridiculous victims of a trend. Like you, I enjoy the Bladerunner soundtrack, although apparently some people put it in the same "plastic" category we have in mind. I remember reading an interview with Paul Lansky, the experimental computer musician famously sampled by Radiohead in "Idioteque": http://www.electronicmusic.com/feat...paullansky.html

It is certainly to some extent a matter of personal background, experience, taste, sense for subtleties. There might be a line somewhere that divides plastic/cheesy and appropriate/tasteful, it's probably thin. When it comes to Blade Runner i think it just "hits the note", it walks the line between the two sides. I'm not really a huge Vangelis fan in general.

i would say that it's probably true that highly electronic scores become very dated, just as the technology that formed the basis of those soundtracks becomes dated over time.

The instruments that make up an orchestra on the other hand, have been used so long and are so established that they no longer belong to any time period...only the style that they are played in can seem to "date" the scores.

Two words:

Blade Runner

Case closed. The movie, the music, the visuals - the result was a movie that spawned a generation of die-hard fans, and the film has been immortalized since then. The music MADE that movie. I was blown away by the combination.

For some movies, yes, for others the music might be bad. Its all about selection.

Electronic music was great in such films as Matrix and Terminator - the couple I can think of. Not so good in movies like Hackers and The Beach, IMO.

Inspiring music at the right time in a good film is a PERFECT combination.

I personally like movie scores. My favourites apart from Blade Runners have to be Total Recall and Planet of the Apes (2001).

EDIT: So what that music may make some movies "dated"? Nothing wrong with that, but rather is gives a movie a classic touch.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium EDIT: So what that music may make some movies "dated"?

Because "dated" music can sound cheesy and annoying, detracting from the enjoyment of the film, at least for me.