OK, so I'm researching the next addition to my studio and I'm looking into adding a Little Phatty Stage II. I already have a Rosetta 200 on the way, so I figure I'll have pretty good AD to capture the nuances of a true analog outboard synth.

Anyway, so I was up at GC today playing around with it, and I liked it a lot. I really like having the physical interface, and I felt pretty inspired just playing around with it.

However, I had a couple of concerns that I hoped someone on the forum could address.

(FYI, I'd love to spring for a Voyager, but 3K is just too much for me ATM.)

1. The front panel on the floor model at GC seemed well used. Often I had to press a button more than once or press it pretty hard to get it to activate. In addition, the knobs seemed fairly loose. Is this just a symptom of the floor model at GC getting a ton of use or is this behavior typical for a brand new unit?

2. The GC guys said that it was updated with the latest OS, but I couldn't find the arpeggiator functions, even though I have heard that it is buried in the menus somewhere. Is there in fact an arpeggiator?

3. Will the LFO sync to incoming MIDI clock?

4. I couldn't figure out how to determine the LFO speed. If it does sync to incoming MIDI clock, is there a way to get the digital display to show the beat division?

5. Sound. Without getting into a hardware vs software debate, do you personally feel it is worth the extra investment from a sound standpoint? The Minimonsta sounds pretty good, but I wonder if I'm really going to get that much of a sonic improvement by using the LP in place of a good softsynth emulation such as the Minimonsta.

Thanks.

I think its an awesome synth, the bass goes much deeper than its software equivalent. its a go to synth for bass.

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

Get a used voyager rack for about $1,500. I have no idea about the questions you asked, though. Except the last one. The thing that the software hasn't been able to get right at all is the envelopes. I'm not sure how the Phatty's envelopes are, but the voyager is PERFECT. So snappy and precise. I've never heard anything so flawless.

___________________
Youtube || Soundcloud || Synth Patch Banks

Last edited by alanzo on Aug-06-2009 at 12:00

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J 1. The front panel on the floor model at GC seemed well used. Often I had to press a button more than once or press it pretty hard to get it to activate. In addition, the knobs seemed fairly loose. Is this just a symptom of the floor model at GC getting a ton of use or is this behavior typical for a brand new unit?

yes its the floor model although some of the buttons are buttons (not switches or pots or press pads) so you need to hit them in the middle.

quote:

2. The GC guys said that it was updated with the latest OS, but I couldn't find the arpeggiator functions, even though I have heard that it is buried in the menus somewhere. Is there in fact an arpeggiator?

yes arp is functional on the lp

quote:

3. Will the LFO sync to incoming MIDI clock?

yes, in fact the lil phatty has a usb sync option

quote:

4. I couldn't figure out how to determine the LFO speed. If it does sync to incoming MIDI clock, is there a way to get the digital display to show the beat division?

i dont know this answer but you can cycle between sync and off sync, i just don't know if the digital display will read the setting

quote:

5. Sound. Without getting into a hardware vs software debate, do you personally feel it is worth the extra investment from a sound standpoint? The Minimonsta sounds pretty good, but I wonder if I'm really going to get that much of a sonic improvement by using the LP in place of a good softsynth emulation such as the Minimonsta.

i sold my voyager after owning it for 1.5yrs. moog makes amazing products and i think the quality of their synths is 2nd to none. the signals, the wave forms, the envelopes are all the best in the biz my issue with them was they are a bit too simple. 3 wave forms, 2 LFOs, 2-3 filter types etc. in my opinion moog makes the best at what they do but there are many more versitle synths worth the same if not more. so to answer your question, i think the LP is great for what it is, do i think you should spend 1k on it, no. do i think you should go after other synths or perhaps dive into more complicated software synths, yup (this is coming from a guy who has 10+ vintage synths)

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Get a used voyager rack for about $1,500.

+1. I had a Voyager RME for a while and it was nice, but it just wasn't for me. I owned other Moogs way back in the 80s as well. I've only toyed with the LP (every time I'm in GC, actually) and it really doesn't do much for me. But, if the Moog sound is what you're after, then I'd say save a little more and look for a second-hand Voyager RME.

I downloaded the Minimonsta demo a few weeks ago and was considering it, but it didn't do a whole lot for me. Of course, I no longer have my Moogs, so I couldn't do a side-by-side comparison, but I did compare it to several synths that I compared to the Voyager (e.g., Mopho, MEK). I'd say it probably does a decent job at capturing the general sound of a Moog, although it seemed to lack some of the presence that I recall the Voyager having.

Also, and I don't mean this to be a software vs. hardware thing, but there's a lot to be said for getting your hands on a genuine Moog, or any fine quality instrument for that matter. Bob Moog is obviously a legend whose name is synonomous with quality, and betweeen that and those big clunky knobs and the retro look, feel, and sound of Moogs, just getting your hands on one can be a very inspirational experience in itself. That's something you don't get with software (well, I don't). To me, software is more utilitarian, whereas hardware is more conducive to creativity (but, that's not necessarily the case for everybody). So, yeah, Minimonsta captured the sound well enough and could probably easily be passed off as a real Moog, but it just didn't entice me to sit there for hours on end fiddling with knobs and just playing the way my Moogs, Dave Smiths, Rolands, etc. have.

___________________
cryophonik.com | facebook | soundcloud

Sonar Platinum | Ableton Live 9 | Logic Pro X | Access Virus TI2 Keyboard | Kurzweil PC3X | Nord Lead 4R | NI Maschine

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I think its an awesome synth, the bass goes much deeper than its software equivalent. its a go to synth for bass.

This is primarily what I planned on using it for, although I would not presume that this would be it's only function.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Get a used voyager rack for about $1,500. I have no idea about the questions you asked, though. Except the last one. The thing that the software hasn't been able to get right at all is the envelopes. I'm not sure how the Phatty's envelopes are, but the voyager is PERFECT. So snappy and precise. I've never heard anything so flawless.

Interesting, I had not considered this option. Noted.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 do i think you should spend 1k on it, no. do i think you should go after other synths or perhaps dive into more complicated software synths, yup (this is coming from a guy who has 10+ vintage synths)

My main reasoning behind going for the LP is because my software arsenal consists of primarily analog emulations. I'm not doing Trance. My productions are in the Tech/Progressive House vibe, and a lot of my sound harkens back to the Bedrock/S&D sounds from the late 90's. S&D - Communicate, GU Ibiza 013, etc, but with modern production standards. A lot of those tracks were produced using vintage analogs, based on interviews with the producers I have read. Charlie May, John Graham, Medway, etc. So, it makes sense (to me) that I have found most of the sounds I want from those vintage emulations. Keep in mind, I am getting good sounds from software, so this is certainly not a "I'll be a better producer with hardware" type of situation. I learned that lesson the hard way.

I'm not necessarily planing on ditching my softsynths, but I do have some specific reasons for wanting to add a couple of outboard hardware synths. My main motivation in buying the hardware synth(s) are:

1. Reduce the amount of post processing required to get the sound I want out of the software emulations. Softsynths like the Minimonsta, and the Minimoog sound good for what they are, but often require a fair bit of post processing to make up for deficiencies such as lack of low end.

2. Provide a tactile interface for sound design. A computer mouse and keyboard isn't exactly the most inspiring interface for patch programming and sound design.

I already have the fundamentals of my studio fleshed out. I have a powerful Mac Pro, MOTU 2408 fed into a Rosetta 200 and Focal Twin monitors. My attention is now turning toward improving the quality of my source sounds, hence the analog outboard. I have owned and sold a fair number of hardware VA synths in the past (NL3, Novation Nova, Virus B), but honestly I never really thought that their sound was that much better than the soft synths I owned.

I only tell you all this so you have a context for my next question to you, which is what type of synths are you recommending based on the above situation?

You may not change my mind, but I am still interested in your opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Also, and I don't mean this to be a software vs. hardware thing, but there's a lot to be said for getting your hands on a genuine Moog, or any fine quality instrument for that matter. Bob Moog is obviously a legend whose name is synonomous with quality, and betweeen that and those big clunky knobs and the retro look, feel, and sound of Moogs, just getting your hands on one can be a very inspirational experience in itself. That's something you don't get with software (well, I don't). To me, software is more utilitarian, whereas hardware is more conducive to creativity (but, that's not necessarily the case for everybody). So, yeah, Minimonsta captured the sound well enough and could probably easily be passed off as a real Moog, but it just didn't entice me to sit there for hours on end fiddling with knobs and just playing the way my Moogs, Dave Smiths, Rolands, etc. have.

There is definitely a bit of this. I started when hardware was all there was, so a lot of this is also about having a tactile interface.

Cryo, you have heard my stuff before, you you can attest to the fact that I'm not really having a problem getting good sound out of software

Last edited by Eric J on Aug-06-2009 at 05:28

i think a virus TI would benefit you the most based on your needs. For starters Charlie May(and John Graham) made a bank for the ti and basically made all of involver on it. The synth is incredibly versatile and i don't think you'll find its too VA, i think its probably the only synth i'll NEVER sell. The other benfit for you is the DSP technology you're really after, that is synths that don't waste CPU resources. It syncs via USB and audio comes out of it as well.

my other recommendation is the TC powercore, again DSP technology a really really good virus emulation, etc.


now if you want my personal "need" right now, i'm thinking of selling my prophet 08 after playing with the nord wave. The Wave has to be the coolest synth i've had the pleasure of playing with and now after having the nord for 6 mos i can say i really see/hear the difference in the Wave and how it would make my set up complete.

(i borrowed a friends and you can hear it in my nu disco alias -- myspace.com/greyghost80s )

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Cryo, you have heard my stuff before, you you can attest to the fact that I'm not really having a problem getting good sound out of software

Absolutely! You get killer sounds!

___________________
cryophonik.com | facebook | soundcloud

Sonar Platinum | Ableton Live 9 | Logic Pro X | Access Virus TI2 Keyboard | Kurzweil PC3X | Nord Lead 4R | NI Maschine

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 i think a virus TI would benefit you the most based on your needs. For starters Charlie May(and John Graham) made a bank for the ti and basically made all of involver on it. The synth is incredibly versatile and i don't think you'll find its too VA, i think its probably the only synth i'll NEVER sell. The other benfit for you is the DSP technology you're really after, that is synths that don't waste CPU resources. It syncs via USB and audio comes out of it as well.

Funny you mention that, because it is the one VA that I have considered adding to my setup, for precisely the reasons you mentioned. The only two things that have stopped me until now are the price, and the uncertainty of how it would work in my setup. I have seen so many people having problems with the TI, that I am not sure if it is just a problem with those users' particular setups or if it is truly a genuine problem with the product.

Definitely something I will consider, it would certainly be more versatile than the Moog, but I'd be sacrificing that Moog sound.

Decisions, decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Absolutely! You get killer sounds!

BTW--I have some more stuff coming your way for Avon soon, I've just been buried trying to get these other tracks finished.

If you're looking for a cheap Moog style analog, get a Waldorf Pulse. It is discrete like the Moog but you're not paying for an extensive interface, being hand made, or the Moog name. It sounds just as good most of the time and its character is a lot more Unique. Only downside is it has just a single LP filter whereas the Voyager has a dual filter design capable of unique stereo LP effects or a bandpass.

If you want, I can do some A/B/C demos for you comparing the Voyager, Pulse, and VSTi. Just let me know if you're interested and what VSTi(s).

___________________
Youtube || Soundcloud || Synth Patch Banks

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo If you're looking for a cheap Moog style analog, get a Waldorf Pulse. It is discrete like the Moog but you're not paying for an extensive interface, being hand made, or the Moog name. It sounds just as good most of the time and its character is a lot more Unique. Only downside is it has just a single LP filter whereas the Voyager has a dual filter design capable of unique stereo LP effects or a bandpass. If you want, I can do some A/B/C demos for you comparing the Voyager, Pulse, and VSTi. Just let me know if you're interested and what VSTi(s).

Yeah, the demos of the Pulse sounded really good, it may be a cheap alternative thats worth considering. I saved a search on eBay looking for one, none available on there ATM (strange? is it that rare?). I'd actually be interested in hearing the Pulse and the Voyager up against the Minimonsta, as this is my goto soft synth for bass ATM.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Yeah, the demos of the Pulse sounded really good, it may be a cheap alternative thats worth considering. I saved a search on eBay looking for one. I'd actually be interested in hearing the Pulse and the Voyager up against the Minimonsta, as this is my goto soft synth for bass ATM.

I have the same search saved because I want to build a PolyPulse. I'll try to let you grab the next one if you want it, though. I'm in no rush to get another, they've just been VERY rare lately. The one I picked about two weeks ago has been the only one on there for at least 6 weeks.

I'll do an A/B/C comparison of The Voyager, Pulse and Minimonstah for you. I'll post it here either today or tomorrow.

___________________
Youtube || Soundcloud || Synth Patch Banks