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Originally posted by Richard Butler Do you think to truly become pro (not just get releases, but make outstnding stuff) you have to be 100% focuesd and driven to obsessive heights?

Yes.

A high level of focus is itself a pretty rare quality, IMO. Most people are ultimately dabblers, satisfied just to do what it takes for them to get by. Then there are the .01% obsessives who make everything big happen. ;-)

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Yes. IMO. Most people are ultimately dabblers, satisfied just to do what it takes for them to get by. Then there are the .01% obsessives who make everything big happen. ;-)

My conclusion to.

My unsigned mate reckons he will make a track in a few hours and job done, yet as the video in the link shows, it takes professionals like the Freemasons 5 weeks solid working to make a track - IMO pone of the best house tracks ever made.

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It is too contextual to give an answer as to how long it should take on a track for it to be 'pro'. Some tracks come fast and fall together like water, some take a long while and require some pacing back and forth and wrestling. The creative part often comes rather fast for me, it is the mixing and fine tuning that ends up taking the most time for me. Mainly because i'm trying to make lemonade out lemons at the moment with my current setup, and don't have an engineer next to me to handle the mix which is very important these days. Incrementally adding better equipment over time should allow me to get the sound I have in my head without having to be so anal over every sound and mixing desicion.


The core framework of 'Downtown Hustle' was made in roughly 1 day, or about 3 sessions, and signed within about 4 days of making it. 'Deeply Rooted', both versions frameworks were made in 2 days each, or about 5-6 sessions. Frameworks is me getting the track 90% done creatively. And then 110% of time is devoted to the mix, so actually more time ends up getting spent on the mix for now, since the creative side comes fast and soundwise I dont have the greatest equipment at the moment. And those tracks came rather fast because they were taken more as visioned ideas/paintings that went from idea to application rather fast. Even though creatively 90% came within 1-2 days on 'DH' and 'DR' tracks, the finished final mixes took several weeks to finish. The Glocal remixes are each taking over a week of straight working on them, with the hours of course spread apart over weeks. I'm guessing because i have been giving a bit more boundries (breaking them in the 'Intimate Dub'), ie remix parts and a general sound to work with, instead of the freedom to create my own in original productions. So you have to take different steps due to the different dynamics between original music and remix work. Maybe remixing will take the same amount of time in the future. Personally, I prefer doing and releasing original productions, but It seems that the established producers enjoy doing remixes over releasing their own original stuff, going off discographies, or maybe they get offered to do a remix often enough that they cant get around to release their own EPs/LPs?

As far obesssion, I dont sit down working on music all day. I do it in spurts, and often when I make something good, I dont touch it for a while so I dont ruin it after i've gotten it to 90% done creatively. At a particular track level, I do become obsessed. So a relationship does develop with every piece of music that gets to the 90% done point. I'll come back a few days later or weeks later and develop the rest, and maybe add a few new ideas. I'd say im dedicated but not pressured to make music, I create when i'm inspired to make some shit, otherwise I cant sit down and force myself to make music if im not feeling it. When i'm feeling it, i'll make 2-4 tracks that will end up being my favorite tracks i've made, until the next 2-4 track session nets my new favorites. Very little time is wasted, often when I do sit down to create, its not in vain, maybe because i've developed my craft to a level that allows me to have this type of creative pattern. I'd make a great touring DJ that does a 2-4 week DJ gig schedule, and then come home hungry and inspired to knock out 2-4 tracks that become my new loves.

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Last edited by Kismet7 on Sep-26-2009 at 15:13

Like most crafts, to become a master it takes around 10,000 hours although some will say just 1,000 hours. It really depends on your aspirations. If you just want to write cookie cutter Trance tracks then it won't take you near as long. If you care about learning music theory and learning a lot more on the engineering side along with learning how other genres work then it's going to be a much longer (and much more fruitful) process.

Again, just depends on your goals. It also depends on the person. Music in my opinion is just like a sport. Not everybody born has the ability to be good at it or master it although relentless hard work will yield good results regardless (same for sports!)

I think its right that it takes a long time but are we talking about the engineering of a track or the creative side. Some people must be more creative than others and can hear a melody in 5 mins?

Those same people might be terrible at the production side. me and my sis were talking she is an animator and so is her boyfriend. She says she will do a piece on animation and think that will do (and to the layperson it looks great) but her boyfriend will spend 5 or 6 weeks on the same thing she spent a day on. Her boyfriends wont look amazingly different but something better about it ?

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

I have a track I started 1 year ago, I barely finished like 3 months ago. Another one 'You Belong' I started in March 2008, I finished in August 2009, though I might use the version I frameworked in March 2008 as an alternate mix when/if it gets picked up.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 It is too contextual to give an answer as to how long it should take on a track for it to be 'pro'. Some tracks come fast and fall together like water, some take a long while and require some pacing back and forth and wrestling.

Agree 100% here. The thing I have noticed over the years, especially on forums, is that when people are inexperienced or just starting out, they have this concept of "Pro". Like an athlete or a movie star, becoming a "pro" producer was this ethereal threshold that you cross once conditions A, B, and C are met.

I used to think this way as well, but as time went on I started to realize that there was really no magic boundary out there that had to be crossed in order to be "Pro".

200 hours? hahahahahaha
if it takes much more than 10-15 hours then its not going to happen imo.
i wish there was a timer in the projects im working on to acutally know how long i use. one of my tracks have taken forever, and i still cant finish it. it will probably ruin everything for me beacuse it semms i cant go on before its finished and released.

The answer really depends on what you mean by "pro".

To get released to any label? Piece of cake. There are so many labels now, so many of them starving for good tracks, just find one.

To get released to a major label and make decent money on the side? Lots of casual producers can swing that, if they have talent. It takes effort, but not total commitment and sleepless nights.

To actually make a living from producing? It's a little harder, but some people can swing it by renting out the studio and maybe doing some DJ gigs (also gives them free exposure for their tracks).

To be a "celebrity" like Armin or Lawler? Yeah, I guess if that's what you call "pro", then you would need to have almost fanatical devotion to the art. Although there are still exceptions, like deadmau5, who manage to pump out a few tracks that become so insanely popular that they become an overnight success.

Some people also manage to avoid doing any actual work by having the right social connections. I'm not cynical enough to believe that this is the norm, but it definitely happens. You could argue that making those connections requires a lot of work and devotion, but for some people it comes naturally.

Frankly, I'd say that you probably shouldn't be basing your outlook on what you see on TV. This is a perfect example of how "Reality" TV rots your brain. "Attention to detail" is the lamest cop-out ever, they might as well come right out and call it "a certain je ne sais quoi."

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Last edited by DigiNut on Sep-26-2009 at 17:16

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Originally posted by Richard Butler 200 hours - how long the freemasons took to make a track - see them here in the studio - excellent sidechain stuff - which a lot of people get wrong (the release time that is) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxeBrJP52vY Can I start with an analogy I've touched on previously - cooking. In the UK we have a TV show called Masterchef, which takes dozens of competent chefs, and puts them through thier paces, to find one outstanding chef. Now, every one of them will tell you they have what it takes, just like on X-Factor (American idol). They all have this belief that they have the potential to be the best. SO WHAT'S MY POINT? Top Michelin Star chefs are invited to observe the aspiring chefs, and over and over again the same comment comes out - THE DIFFERNECE BETWEEN THE TOP 1% AND THE REST IS......................................... "ATTENTION TO DETAIL" On this and other production forums, many people clearly are aspiring to get that pro sound, but I wonder honestly how many of us have this inate attention to detail to go on striving and thinking outside the box? Aspiring swimmers train 6 hours per day ON TOP OF WORK Aspiring chefs spend all thier free time cooking Aspiring writers never sleep Aspiring rowers that end up making the top, train wayyy harder than the rest Scientists that make breakthroughs, have lives 100% focused on thier passion (often on top of the day job) Do you think to truly become pro (not just get releases, but make outstnding stuff) you have to be 100% focuesd and driven to obsessive heights? I myself have become obsessive

I 100% believe this and practice it myself. I have thrown all other aspects out of my life because this is all that matters to me. This isn't the first thing i've been obsessive with attention to detail and becoming the best; and i'm sure it won't be the last. I've just been made to believe I was made to succeed in whatever I do; and honestly I think a lot of the ability to provide myself the will to keep going is based on the ability to translate anything into motivation. If you're constantly motivated there's no way you won't get where you want it's just a matter of time.

Attention to detail is the single biggest difference between the top tracks and the good/normal tracks. If I divulged some of the processes I go through musically I'd probably end up in an insane asylum LOL

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 If I divulged some of the processes I go through musically I'd probably end up in an insane asylum LOL

I doubt it.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.