Hey guys
question about learning music theory/ piano etc.

I know some of you are classically trained and some of you have a professional education so my questions are these..

do you think I should bother paying a local teacher or go to a local school and learn abit music theory and piano skills or
Do you think even just buying a book about it would be sufficient?

my productions I feel would be enhanced if I were to learn about this so if it were worth it I would be more than happy to pay.

all I want to learn is the skills necessary to better my production in EDM. Im under the impression if I did a term or two in a school they might cover things that I wont need? I really don't know though as I don't know anyone personally who studied music after high school..

Just curious about what you learnt and how much of it you use in todays productions ?

cheers

JC

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I've had two teachers for theory, one my senior year in high school and the other teaching Theory I in college. They both helped a lot for the fundamentals, I tried learning it on my own but their past experience with it really helped them explain it in a more approachable way that made a lot more sense to me.

You don't need to learn a whole lot before you can start applying it, but it takes a long time for you to really be able to understand it in such a way that it becomes second nature. I'm not even close to that point, and I don't expect to be anytime soon, but it definitely helps. I'd say try to find a teacher for the absolute basics, and once you have a foundation you can build upon that with your own research.

I don't have any recommendations for materials, I'm sure other members can make suggestions for books or courses better than I can. But I can definitely advocate for the use of them.

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 do you think I should bother paying a local teacher or go to a local school and learn abit music theory and piano skills or Do you think even just buying a book about it would be sufficient?

Well, I predict that just about everybody except me is going to chime in here shortly and tell you that neither piano lessons nor music theory is necessary for creating EDM [edit: Kysora already proved me wrong, dammit! :P], and they'll be correct. That doesn't mean that it can't be very helpful, though, and I certainly recommend taking every opportunity that you can to improve your musical skills.

For music theory, I think that largely depends on how good the teacher is and how disciplined you are to stick to a book. Personally, I'd suggest taking a course because it (presumably) forces you to be disciplined and stick to the syllabus, and having someone to answer a question when it arises can minimize any misunderstandings.

As far as piano goes, I'd definitely recommend finding a good teacher and taking piano lessons. A good teacher will have you learning from a good book anyway, so you're doing double-duty that way.

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 Just curious about what you learnt and how much of it you use in todays productions ?

Quite honestly, most of the music theory that I actually apply to my EDM/IDM/pop productions I knew before I even took my first music theory class, because I had music instructors who taught me much of it as part of my regular lessons and band practice. The things I'm talking about include reading music, knowledge of musical time, scales/modes, keys, and how chords are built from the harmonic notes, some key elements of melodies (e.g., harmonic vs. non-harmonic notes) and basic counterpoint concepts. So, if you don't have a good working knowledge in these areas already, you can learn them and put them to use with one decent music theory course.

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If the opportunity is available, and affordable, certainly look into it. Learning some theory certainly can't hurt anybody, but it's not terribly necessary for producing electronic music.

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thanks for the replies

i think i may give a couple of teachers a call
there is a few teachers and music schools right near my house... they do night music thory courses AND teach piano..
so im assuming they will go hand in hand and whilst learning piano maybe they will teach you theory!

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quote:

Originally posted by davedresden it's a good thing your tits have no bearing on the outcome of my career

JDC
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i go to musicians institute in hollywood for recording engineering. don't regret it one single bit. there is just so much networking at your disposal it's ridiculous, you'll meet pros who actually know their stuff and want to help you progress as an artist

I've been checking out this guy's series: http://www.youtube.com/user/Lypur#p/a

Since I didn't know anything about music theory, chords, etc... I was looking at some online courses before spending money on a teacher. And this guy really explains things slowly and very clearly. You have to put up with some dumb jokes once in a while, but it's worth it. And best of all, it's free, although I am thinking about donating some money to the guy

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you can pretty much learn it all in a book , music as a reference and a some guidance ie what to learn which isn't that hard to figure out. What is hard is the time and dedication you need to invest.

I also suppose it depends on how far you want to take it. My opinion is that unless you spend at least 3 hours every day for the next 3 years studying theory/harmony/voiceleading … it won't yield much and you won't remember most of it. It will also initially make your writing stale as you are in a way temporarily brainwashed by all the choral drills you do for beginner harmony. You will still find it fascination however. Another thing I forgot to mention is that time frame I gave you was for musicians that have been playing over 10 years and are good enough to get into music schools. It will also be much harder if you don't have a musical background.

My personal experience is that school has only ever afforded me the time and money to study music of which I did most of it on my own time. I did go to pretty much the best schools in NA so don't expect to be made into a wizard if you to an undergrad at some no name college. You really end up doing all the work anyways. I personally think learning theory will not really yield that much considering the harmonic exploration of music is done and really , anything new with music does not involve melodies or harmonies but rather production and soundesign. I prefer artists in EDM that don't know theory as it is more refreshing to hear someone that does something weird than someone that is a theory hack try to sound "tonal" But as a feeling of consolation, there are probably less than 200 people in NA that know what I know. Not a bad feeling and I don't regret my decision despite the fact my sister is one year older, a doctor owns a house, a mercedes and travels all over the world.

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Aug-17-2010 at 00:58

Are there any music/recording schools in the OC,California area?

Want to start networking with some other producers around here.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

intern if you are in the LA area. Why pay when you can learn for free. Don't go to school for production or engineering. The only program that is worth the money is the ToneMeister program and the only place they offer that in NA as far as I know is at Mcgill in montreal. It is a master program and focuses on recording and mic technique. I suppose only the sith speak in absolutes but I really those programs for recording and engineering are A: too short B: too easy and C: not respected. If you have aptitude, intern for free. You will learn, get references and not have to pay the 20 000 you would of had you gone to one of those shitty recording schools.

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Aug-18-2010 at 10:52

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad intern if you are in the LA area. Why pay when you can learn for free. Don't go to school for production or engineering. The only program that is worth the money is the ToneMeister program and the only place they offer that in NA as far as I know is at Mcgill in montreal. It is a master program and focuses on recording and mic technique. I suppose only the sith speak in absolutes but I really those programs for recording and engineering are A: too short B: too easy and C: not respected. If you have aptitude, intern for free. You will learn, get references and not have to pay the 20 000 you would of had you gone to one of those shitty recording schools.

Unless you have a strong connection to a studio, its hard to get an internship in most studios in LA without a recording degree of some sort. There are so many doing the music school thing these days, and the amount of studios are not growing.

If you have disposable money, the engineering school is worth it, if you're smart enough to take advantage of the networking opportunities, and really learn sound engineering. It will be your best friend when it comes to getting music signed to a label. Many labels seem to not care about music anymore, they just want good mixes, look at the Beatport banners.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

it isn't hard. You just present yourself well, and tell them you will do anything for free. Nobody will turn that down. You will get coffee, arrange cables and be able to watch pros at work and it will progress. Engineers for the most part look at schooling with a certain level of contempt. Any engineer over 40 anyways which is pretty much all the good ones. The fact that you know things might help but nobody will give a flying fuck if you graduated from any recording college unless it is a program that is recognized which as I mentioned you can probably count on one hand in NA.

If you show up with baggy phat pants and a ball cap slanted saying you like makin beats and look like you spend your weekends quivering in the corner of a club because you took too many Es, then ya you aren't going to be given a second glance.

I went to the US with no work visa and got ahold of as many orchestrators and composers as I could and told them I can orchestrate and that I will show them for one month what i'm worth. The guy I ended up working for, I just asked him to put anything on the piano and I will transpose to any key he wants playing it on the spot. And that is how I was hired. They ended up paying me under the table of course but it just shows that you need to be extremely stubborn and confident. You also need to be great.

If you are good enough and believe in yourself, just go for it. IT helps if you have parents to bail you out. There are opportunities, people are getting old. You just need to be really good with a portfolio to show, persistent and lucky. And dressing well doesn't hurt.

Also understand that if EDM is what you do, and you can't do anything else, well it kinda limits what you can do. You need to be versatile. Most EDM producers are too esoteric to get work as producer for media that requires all sorts of music.

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Aug-18-2010 at 23:49