Now i have seen a lot of things said on this subject, an di hope me can have an adult discussion on it

This is not a direct attack on america, and nor is it an attempt at being racist, or woteva u feel, which would leed u to flame me

Now, my problem is that a lot of people are miss informed

America mainly helped troops wise in the war. As we had most of the intelligence, with secret opperations like at bletchley park, and the enigma machine

English secrets have been kept for many years and it is only now coming to light wot really went on

America was involved in a knowledge sharign exercise with the english, in which we beleived they woudl share their advances in technology as we shared ours

For example the english were the first to design the basis of the first jet plane, using the unique rear wing system, which men the plane could be stable, and reach hi speeds without breaking up

We gave the information to the maericans, beleive we would recieve information back, we beign the british

However no information was recieved, and america went on to say they were the first to invent the jet plane - fact and this is false

Next up id the issue of america involvement, we area all pleased america got involved, as without them the war woudl have dragged on for a lot longer.

But if u stufy the war especially in france american troops made great advances into the nazi line, but this was only down to british intelligence, decoding messages usign the enigma machine - fact

So i was just wondering wot you beleived, can we please stick to fact

Do you think that america has miss lead its people, or do you think that they are wrong to steel secret information, and abuse countries trusts?

Or do you think america did play a large part in WW2, and if it wasnt for them, we woudl now be under nazi rule???

Im interested to see both sides of the story, and also infromation that others have read, or picked up

Most of my information is not 100% accurate, but is based on fact, acquired from tv, books, etc

So please discuss

Unfortunatly this may turn into a flame war. Some people cant be mature i guess

But i will ahnd it over to you

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All I know is that Canada's role in the war was way overlooked.

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Canadians freed Holland

So no complaining about them

It were actually the German who made most WW2 inventions, like the V2 rocket which led to the space program (Werner von Braun)

As far as the jets being invented by Americans thats not what they teach us in school. But the more important issue, of America getting deep into Nazi territory, does it really matter were you get your information from concerning placement of nazi troops? No. Because the British troops were all over the place, and the americans wernt. And they both wanted the same result. As far as sharing advanced technology outside of the nuclear bombs, which were pretty classified i think, we didnt have any advanced technology.

quote:

Originally posted by Vanilla All I know is that Canada's role in the war was way overlooked.

yes...rather.

also fly: maybe you would like to go edit your post for spelling and the like. just a suggestion. this thread trying to be serious should at least have a professional looking first post. just my opinion mind you, dosent really matter. im probably just pissed because i've dealt with people on the phone all day who cant speak their own language correctly.

but i digress... america helped a lot. not so much in intelligence gathering or anything like that. but their role is no less significant. the manpower and logistical help provided allowed the war to be over and done with much quicker and therefore with fewer casualities.

and that my friends is the end of my post

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quote:

Originally posted by flystyler But if u stufy the war especially in france american troops made great advances into the nazi line, but this was only down to british intelligence, decoding messages usign the enigma machine - fact

I know that Canada made the bigget advances into France during the first few days of D-Day, followed closely by the British.

Also, the Americans took out a major German ally, the Japanese. People will say that they went overboard with the Nukes...but come on...there you are, minding your own damn business and the next thing you know, a major port has been completely levelled.

So in essence, the USA got into the war cause the Japanese attacked them; without warning, or anything.

And did you know that the Manhattan Project was a joint effort between the Canadians and Americans?

K, 6 posts so far, and no bashing yet. *holds breath*

quote:

Originally posted by flystyler Next up id the issue of america involvement, we area all pleased america got involved, as without them the war woudl have dragged on for a lot longer.

If America hadn't got involved, Germany probably would have developed nuclear capabilities before the war ended. And that would have been a very, very bad thing.

Cheers,

Arbiter

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter If America hadn't got involved, Germany probably would have developed nuclear capabilities before the war ended. And that would have been a very, very bad thing. Cheers, Arbiter

Ummmmm partly true, the Germans were going to create nuclear weapons (that is why the manhatten project had first started up) however, they had no time as they were losing the war and figured, we'll go with what works and went ahead to develop the V2 rocket (faster, more effective timewise etc). So when Germany was fully invaded the Americans (and everyone else) found out that there really was no atomic bomb finished at least, there were just plans to make one, but those fell through (see above point). So all of their plans of building the a bomb before the Germans had succeeded and they figured (paraphrasing here) "We have spent millions of taxdollars on this thing, a LOT of time and research so we'll use it...on Japan (after all they did level an entire port of ours...plus it will end up saving lives" (Ya right) Look into reading the "Franck Report" I think it's called, gives reasons for not to drop the bomb during a debate that happened.
That's what I know on the subject...took a course on Einstein and the humanities (talked about ww2 and the a bomb etc...
)

yes, well...

im not gonna bash, but this thread has NO WAY of ending peacefully and I think that fly prolly knew that beforehand(not a bash-just unconciously maybe). but neways...

yeah the british had a good deal of tech, but would it have lasted very long without US involvement? even if this was 'just manpower' or troops?

and im not a historian, and dont pretend to be, but there are 3 significant events that pull the whole picture together:

1: The Monroe Doctrine- was an isolationist piece of writing before WWI. We DID get dragged into that conflict.

2: The sinking of a ship or various ships in the North Sea BEFORE Pearl Harbor. The most famous was the Andrea Doria, i believe, but am prolly wrong. And while these werent war ships, they were ALREADY providing aid to the Allies(even tho we werent supposed to be).

3: And Pearl Harbor. This one is self explainatory.

the shitty thing tho is that the US Rev was the first really Nationalist Rev/War in its time, and while this has little if anything to do with WWII, its gonna mean a WHOLE LOTTA NATIONALISM will insue here, making an attempted 'debate' here unlikely.


but please. continue in peace|

As I've said on here before, I think the amount America influenced the war was signicant, but has been largely overblown as time has gone by.

On the atom bomb thing:

The Germans were initially working on the atomic bomb, and they had one of the best physicists in the world, Heisenberg working on it. The program failed long before the war ended though because Heisenberg made a critical miscalculation and thought that he needed an obscene amount of Uranium to attain critical mass, and complete the bomb. So much uranium in fact that the Nazis couldn't hope to collect it given 10 years, let alone mere months, so the pursuit of the bomb was scrapped.

In that it's not likely that this thread will end peaceably ... but one can only hope hehe. Anyway It's impossible to say whether the US or the British could have done it alone. The two were so linked with each other that it would be impossible to envision the war effort without the other. Without the lend-lease program and American convoys to supply Britain with food and weapons, Britain would have surely capitulated early on in the war. Plus the amount of men, equipment, and industrial capacity that America was able to direct towards the war effort was unmatchable by Britain and Germany.

However, the British developed the enigma code breaker. Undoubtly a huge intelligence asset. What's an even lesser known fact is that Britain invented Radar which was copied by the Americans and the impact of Radar is not given enough credit. The Americans spent $2 billion developing atomic weapons ... however they spent $3 billion developing radar. I'm sure there are a bunch of war contributions that I'm missing but the point remains the same ... it's pointless to argue about the issue since both countries made HUGE, IMEASURABLE impacts on winning the war.

If there should be any debate it should be about how, with most of us coming from western nations, we have ALL been biased against the contributions that Russia made towards the war effort. The US lost almost 400,000 men. I don't know about Britain. Russia lost 20 MILLION people (and that's a conservative estimate too). Think the western front was bad? The Germans had 2 to 3 times as many divisions on the Eastern front. AND Russia faced the ENTIRE German army in land combat for 3 YEARS more than the allies had. One tough nut to crack huh? But I guess if you think about it ... the Germans were the toughest of us all.

I'm really liking this thread and I think it can happen without
flaming. First of all Canadian troops were an important part in WW2 and it is well known that the allied commanders gave them the dirtiest and hardest assignments(most likely thinking that we're just canadians, nodbody cares about us) that had some of the highest casualty rates. Second of all I agree that some american films make it seem like they won the war on their own. I'm pretty sure thats not true if you were to look at battle stats as to which country killed the most germans and destroyed the majority of their machinery. I'm thinking russia would be on the top of that list. But, the americans did send millions of tons of supplies to both the british and russians. I believe that Britain wouldn't have been able to fight for as long as they did without american supplies. As for all the advances that the british shared with the americans, I'll bet you that it wasn't just british scientist involved, I'll bet you a good part of them were french, dutch, etc, etc. So far thats all I have to say. Keep this thread going

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He Grew Up On The Mean Streets Of Warsaw