Musical theorists....i need your assistance

Not good on scales/modes but learning bit by bit.

I know how to do Major scales/Minor scales - for minor scale, start on the root note, tone, semitone etc.. this applies no matter what the root note is, right?

What i was wondering was there are a pattern for Dorian/Phrygian modes in the same way? Or does it just depend on the root note all the time, something more complex?

there are a couple of useful bits on youtube, like this vid



he says this is a "white note scale" - does that apply to all root note positions? i.e. Would E Dorian use all white keys only?

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Yes, the patterns of intervals for each of the Western modes are:

Ionian: T T S T T T S
Dorian: T S T T T S T
Phrygian: S T T T S T T
Lydian: T T T S T T S
Mixolydian: T T S T T S T
Aeolian: T S T T S T T
Locrian: S T T S T T T

T = Tone
S = Semitone

It doesn't matter which note you start on, the intervals are always the same for these modes. e.g., A Dorian:

A B C D E F# G [A]

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Last edited by cryophonik on Sep-15-2014 at 18:35

Yays theory thread, i have the question for the grand masters. When making a track how do you pick a rote note and which type of instrument do you use to start it with? The bass? THe lead? Or idk i'm lost.

I'm sicking of having all my tracks in A#

I just put my hands on the keyboard and play.

Musicianship ftw.

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Haha hell yea

What Geoff said.

Sometimes, I start with melody in my head, other times I start with a chord progression on the piano, other times I start with a guitar or bass. The important point, though, is that this is composition/songwriting, not theory. Plenty of musicians can write songs without employing a lot of music theory knowledge.

As for the key, it's pretty much semi-random for me. But, since I usually end up having vocals in my tracks, the key often gets transposed up or down to keep the melody in the singer's range, or we sometimes change the melody, if necessary, to keep the original key and make sure that it's within the singer's range. That said, if it's a pop/rock-song with real guitars and bass, I usually keep it in a key that's relatively easy to play - not many guitarists (esp. a hack like myself) like to play in Bb minor.

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I see thanks for the input homies.

I'm not putting a downer on theory as it has it's uses, but a lot of those uses are describing what you're doing to somebody that already knows what they're doing.

Actually learning to read music and play an instrument is THE key to all this stuff, it just takes the longest to learn so most people don't bother.

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One of my favorite ways to know the notes of scales I don't know, is to look in Animoog on iOS, if you go to the kb scale tab, you can pick the scale you want and it shows you the notes in that scale. Pretty handy. I know some theory, but I don't know every scale, and it can be useful to quickly learn the notes of scales I don't know to try to get different sounds I haven't tried before.

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cryophonik is correct, the intervals are always the same. Here is a tool I made to help:
http://nickfever.com/music/scale-finder

A, and C are very popular keys. You could always transpose after you compose, or just pick one new key to learn and familiarize yourself with.

As far as where to start, it could be a bass line, melody or chord progression... sometimes even a drum loop. I would suggest not getting to tied to what you start with. It may evolve into something else. You may need to delete the part that you started with. "You may have to remove a good part to make a great song." (Can't remember who said that.) Anyhow, acceot that thatpart what a catalyst to get your creative juices flowing...

Summary, start with bass, chor progression or melody, and don't be afraid to remove parts.

HTH,
Nick

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 he says this is a "white note scale" - does that apply to all root note positions? i.e. Would E Dorian use all white keys only?

Sorry, just noticed this question. No, E Dorian would not use all white keys - it would be: E F# G A B C# D [E]

The "white note scale" is really just a point of reference. If you start on any key and play white keys up/down an octave, you will be playing one of the seven modes. Don't get hung up on the white keys, though. The intervals are what's important.

That said, another way that may work for you is to think of the modes in terms of how they relate to another major scale, and the white keys may help here. You can think of Dorian as having the same notes as the major scale that is one whole-step lower (e.g., D Dorian has the same notes as C major, E Dorian has the same notes as a D major scale, G# Dorian has the same notes as an F# major scale, etc.). Then, you can think of Phrygian mode as having the same notes as the major scale that is two whole steps lower, Lydian mode having the same notes as the major scale a perfect fourth lower, etc. That may or may not be helpful to you, but it's always been easier for me to remember them that way than it is to remember the succession of tones and semi-tones, which become more difficult to keep track of if you're moving in larger intervals.

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ive been learning Dominant V progs, and subdomninatn etc and 7th chords laately, check those out, good for house, Maj7 chords