I was just going to post a thread on abortion......
I think all of us will agree it should not be the first choice for contraception. There are so many better options like condoms, pill, new female hormonal patch etc...

Is it legal in the UK by the way???

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Here is a biased article I read today about "partial birth abortions."






© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com


Republican senators, seeking to pass a bill that will ban a practice that involves the killing of
a child in the very act of birth, received some unexpected help from a perky 11-year-old, who
once was a target of this brutal procedure.

Donna Joy Watts, accompanied by her parents, Donald and Lori Watts, made a return trip to
Capitol Hill this week to urge the Senate to pass the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, S.3, which
was introduced by their senator, Rick Santorum, R-Pa.

Six years ago, during a debate on a similar measure, the Wattses and their daughter were
unceremoniously ushered out of the Senate gallery at the insistence of Barbara Boxer, who is
the proud defender of this horrific practice. The excuse given was that Donna Joy was only 5
years of age, and the rules say you need to be 6-years-old to sit in on these debates.

What really had the "Queen of Infanticide" in such a dither?

The very presence of this beautiful child with sparkling eyes and shoulder-length brown curls
that encircle her angelic face, undercuts Boxer's argument that this procedure is entirely
elective and necessary to save the life of a mother carrying a doomed fetus – a medical term
Boxer likes to throw around to make a child in the womb, or one in the process of being born,
seem nonhuman.

When Lori was pregnant with Donna Joy, doctors and the Wattses' insurance carrier tried to
bully her into having a partial-birth abortion after a sonogram revealed that parts of Donna
Joy's brain were missing. Another part was outside the skull, the brain stem was deformed and
she had severe hydrocephalus. The Wattses were told that their child had "no chance" for
survival and this procedure was "necessary" to protect Lori's health because their baby's head
was so enlarged.

Lori, now a practical nurse, knew this didn't ring true. How could killing a helpless baby,
delivered feet first with only the head remaining in the birth canal, help a mother? If a vaginal
delivery was impractical, why not deliver this child by Caesarean section? After all, one of
Lori's older children had been delivered in this manner.

Soon, Lori and Donald would understand their motive. It was cheaper for the insurance
company and it guaranteed a dead baby – not one who would require surgery and expensive
medical care.

The Wattses were told that if their child survived, she would be a burden – a heartache and
sorrow. "Not so!" was the reply from these defiant parents. "She will be nothing but a joy,"
Lori assured her doctors.

Lori and Donald were willing to accept a disabled child, but they were not willing to be part of
her brutal demise in this dreadful manner.

They fought the system. They offered the hospital a choice: It could plan for the safe delivery
of their child or Lori would show up in labor in the emergency room. If the hospital boggled the
delivery, they could sue.

Lori doesn't want other women pressured into signing their children's execution orders. So
much for a woman's choice!

That's why Lori was willing to pack up her family and head to Washington in order to call on
senators who are on the fence on this bill. Lori knows it is urgently needed.

The American Medical Association seems to agree with her. The AMA says, "There is no
identified situation where intact dilation and extraction – that's the sanitized medical term
manufactured for this inhumane form of killing – is the 'only appropriate procedure' to induce
abortion." Furthermore, this blind procedure is extremely dangerous to the mother.

Donna Joy's life has not been easy, but she took her eight operations in stride. Today, this
little girl – who had so much to overcome and was not supposed to be able to walk or talk –
now runs and has an impressive vocabulary. In fact, Donna Joy's ambition has no limits. She
says that she wants to become a pilot, a TV star and a senator when she is an adult.

She's well on her way.

If you watched the debate on the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act on C-SPAN this week, you may
have seen Donna Joy in the Senate gallery. She was sitting there proudly as a reminder to all
those in attendance that every child deserves a fighting chance and every mother deserves the
best possible care.

Funny thing … as Donna Joy grows, Barbara Boxer's arguments shrink. They were pretty thin
right from the start.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31493

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Yeah that bill just passed (today or yesterday).

Generally, I think abortion shouldn't be carried out often. There are few situations in which I'd allow, or even encourage abortion. First case is if the future baby shows up to be largely defective. While the article about the little girl sounds very nice, in reality, things like that don't happen often, so I don't think children who are obviously going to be retarded or badly disfunctional should be brought to life. Besides, it is as large burden for them as it is for their families. Also, a defective child focuses a lot of parent's attention to itself, so it is very probable that because of such child those people might never have a normal child later on. A severe genetic defect is also imo a good reason for the abortion.

Bad social conditions are oftenly being reffered to as a good reason, but there are many people incapable of having their own children, and willing to adopt them. If a family is really unable to support a child, which is rarely the case, that child can be given to somebody who can support it.

Most children, however, are usually born healthy, and abortions are mostly carried out because the would-be mother was irresponsible, and hadn't thought of the possible consequences of her actions. In situations like those, I don't think abortion should be allowed, because an innocent child would die because of its mother's lack of reason. If a girl gets pregnant solely because of her carelessness, she has to live with the consequences.

Sadly, though, parents sometimes aren't happy with their children, and a number of such unwanted children could increase if abortion would be restricted. Maybe the best solution would be that the state interferes and creates some sorts of centres for those unwanted children to be raised in and educated. Imo, it is much better to give away an unwanted child to such a center, than have it killed. The child would be left alive and the irresponsible mother could carry on her life. Besides, most western countries are having serious demographic problems, so such an initiative has an additional positive side to it.

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quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez Yeah that bill just passed (today or yesterday).

The bill against "partial birth abortions" in the States you mean??

I think it's a 3rd trimester procedure, and should be restricted to cases of fetal abnormality or danger to the mother, or rape (extreme cases only).

Did it pass the House and the Senate? Or just the House? Everything is Republican controlled, so I'm sure it will pass all three branches of gov. If (when) it does pass, it will probably be brought before the US supreme court. This court is usually moderate on most issues these days, and not really on the liberal (or conservative) activist sides as it was in the 50-70s with the civil rights era. It's anyone's guess how it will rule. What it comes down to is this:

It doesn't matter what the law is...it matters who interprets the law.

Anyways, do any ladies ever read this forum. We need their opinions!

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Abortion is equally merciful as it is murderous. The decision should not be made by small men in large buildings.

I don't think abortion should be a means of birth control. BUT if a woman was raped and she got pregnant I think she should be able to. So I guess I am undecided.

quote:

Originally posted by jesten I don't think abortion should be a means of birth control. BUT if a woman was raped and she got pregnant I think she should be able to. So I guess I am undecided.

I agree with that, but im not undecided. I only agree with it if the woman has been raped or her life is a risk.

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http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLI...tion/index.html

My mum and dad were told that my sister was going to be dasabled and that her life quality would be likely to be lessoned, but my mum still gave birth to her because she couldnt kill her own child.

quote:

Also, a defective child focuses a lot of parent's attention to itself, so it is very probable that because of such child those people might never have a normal child later on. A severe genetic defect is also imo a good reason for the abortion.

My sister would be included in this. She suffers from something called "optic dispasia" along with a bunch of other shit, which include a loss of smell, tendency to lose balance and things like that we take for granted.

I think my sister has made everyone in our family better ppl. We as a family look after each other, and are allot closer i think than what we would have been. Posatives should always be drawn up from negatives, and that brings light into a situation. My sister, some might say, has been a severe disruption in our familys life. We cannot take holiday together (and this summer is the first in 10 years) she cannot fly, she is wheelchair bound when she goes out, and that is when she does, but she is the light of my life, and a inspiration. When i feel bad, i just think about what it is life for her, and i know my problems are in no league to her.

I feel very strongly about abortion and that people dont think about their concequences. If you do not want the child, there are people out there who are willing to offer your child a life, which is always better than no life at all if you have an abortion.

If you are raped, you have to remember that half of that child is still you. I dont think a man can really, and never will, understand why a women would either keep or "get rid" (horrible word) of their child.

Matt

The 64-33 vote on Thursday sent the legislation to the Republican-controlled House, which is expected to pass it this spring.

Thursday's passage comes after eight years of Republican-led attempts to ban the procedure. President Clinton vetoed two bills banning it.

In 2000, the Supreme Court struck down a Nebraska state law similar to a measure that, at the time, was under consideration by Congress.

The court said the Nebraska law was vague and failed to take into account that banning the procedure could jeopardize the health of the pregnant woman.


A lot of Dems even voted for it based on that vote....

"Today's action is an important step toward building a culture of life in America."

This is one thing that scares me about Bush. What does he mean by this?? I'm sure he wished Roe vs Wade were overturned.

It SHOULD be the woman's choice, not some small man in an office as someone above stated.

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