quote:

Originally posted by RJT Greg - You have got to stop being such a nazi about this labeling issue. It's not going to work, and quite frankly, I don't think there are that many people who want to see it work. Let people decide for themselves how they want to be represented, don't try to lock them into some formula where you require them to pigeonhole themselves into a genre.

I didn't require that, you can choose whether or not to add a label.

You can leave it at:

Artist Name - Mix Name - Date

I have also recieved a LOT of positive feedback about the rule from old school TAs as well as new ones! I just think those three elements are KEY in what a mix thread title should include. Stu Cox had some concers about it as well and here's how it went down:

Some of what Stu said:

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I think imposing a rule for naming mix threads is a bad idea. I agree it'll make things slightly easier to browse as a 'library' of mixes, but it would make it a lot harder for the poster to really promote their mix and make it stand out from others... as I'm concerned the poster's chance to grab my attention is in the thread title. Essentially what you're doing is putting every mix on a level playing field... maybe this is part of the intention but I think those willing to put the extra effort into trying to make their mix stand out should be allowed to!

Yep this organizational stuff is what I'm trying to do. The amount of mixes being posted is getting higher and higher and searching for mixes is a real pain as well. Not every vinyl cover looks cool, but sometimes even the ugly covers have some cool music inside. I think with similar titles people will start checking out more different mixes and giving other stuff a try. (I was the kind of person who thought the thread title would make or break my mix as well btw...)

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This whole forum has far too many rules anyway it's the only messageboard I know which is run like a bloody military regime... I can see the point in a lot of it, but some of it gets a bit daft imo.

Actually, compared to the other forum I moderate as well as a lot of technical forums, TA is pretty chill. I've talked this over with some of the other mods, they seem the think the rule is a good idea- it's mainly about proper archiving, and secondarily putting mixes on the same level. Also, I like to mod in a way that helps everyone, hence the suggestion thread etc, so this rule is by no means set in stone. Also go check out the Producers Promotion Section- look at how nice everything looks with similar thread titles!



This is something which has been happening in the Music Producer's Promotion forum for a long time, (it isn't 'firm' but is almost always followed, becaause it's whats expected.) I am only doing this to try and help this forum. This board represents a huge body of work which deserves to be documented! Sometimes dates and dj names arent included anywhere in the post and the user's TA name is not their DJ name- how do you search that? If anything I think this is bringing this forum to a whole new level of proffesionalism and awesomeness!


As I have said before, this is NOT set in stone and has already been modified since it was put into place, so suggestions and comments are always welcome.


Does this explain a little bit better why I am pushing for this rule? Also, I wouldn't call my actions as a mod in order to enforce this rule nazi-like. I could have done what you originally suggested and just closed all the mislabeled threads. But that would be stupid. I have a nice template post which I can just b0p into any thread and is pleasant and easy to understand.


Cheers,

Greg

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Greg - You have got to stop being such a nazi about this labeling issue. It's not going to work, and quite frankly, I don't think there are that many people who want to see it work. Let people decide for themselves how they want to be represented, don't try to lock them into some formula where you require them to pigeonhole themselves into a genre.

This was what I thought... although I PM'd Greg and he pointed out that the Producers forum tends to be pretty easy to find what you're looking for and making the thread titles 'conform' leaves people using the body of the thread to promote themselves (instead of trying to cram words to persuade people to check their mix out into the title), which is how it should be IMO.

On the pidgeon holing front, I don't think there has to be any pidgeon holing at all... tbh I don't think anyone's gonna mind if you don't put a genre (but that might mean people are less likely to look at your thread) and Greg's already said you don't have to use 'standard' genre names... "Chunky stuff", "Music to take drugs to" and "God knows what this shit is" are equally valid genres, if that's how you want to present your mix!

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Stu Cox |

I guess at the end of the day I see what you're saying with regard to pigeonholing, but TBH, I think putting any kind of genre will get you fewer views/replies. When I started simply labeling things:

Rob Turner - Centrum (September 2006)

Instead of:

[Progressive House] Rob Turner - Centrum (September 2006)

It was almost as if my views/replies doubled.

Beyond that, I don't know how making a thread title conform in here will make it "easier" for people to find what they want. If anything, it will narrow the scope of what people listen to, because whether or not they click on a thread may be solely governed from the info in the title. If someone puts a standard genre in the title, it automatically eliminates certain listeners who don't like "Chunky Stuff" or "Electro" or "Tech Trance," when in reality they may love what you're putting out there and not even know it.

At the end of the day, I don't think requiring members to conform to any kind of standardized labeling structure is a good idea. Let people do what they want - It's worked fine in here for years, and there's no need to change it now.

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by RJT Beyond that, I don't know how making a thread title conform in here will make it "easier" for people to find what they want. If anything, it will narrow the scope of what people listen to, because whether or not they click on a thread may be solely governed from the info in the title. If someone puts a standard genre in the title, it automatically eliminates certain listeners who don't like "Chunky Stuff" or "Electro" or "Tech Trance," when in reality they may love what you're putting out there and not even know it. At the end of the day, I don't think requiring members to conform to any kind of standardized labeling structure is a good idea. Let people do what they want - It's worked fine in here for years, and there's no need to change it now.

Ok, it seems we have a split here. All of us have very relevant points of view which need to be addressed. Thank goodness we have a platform in which we can do it maturely ....



Why don't I change that thread to be titled as "Thread Titling Guidlines" or similar? This gives people a solid format and some advice as to how they should properly title their mixes - but no rule which makes it mandatory.

From a personal standpoint I would much rather click a mix in which the title is properly laid out, gives me the name of the DJ and date of the mix - but some people don't. I hate mixes that are like "some new shit from me"... Which is the sort of titling I'm trying to weed out of. In essence you follow these guidlines anyways Rob, apart from the date aspect, so really the only thing you are arguing about is the genre labelling aspect which has been optional since roughly a half hour after the rule was put into place when I recieved feedback from you.

I do however believe we haven't had a problem with it in the past because volume has been much lower. I don't have any straight statistics, but from my observations, there is much more mixes being put up per day/week/month now than in my time here. The site has grown, this forum has grown.

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

Alright, so I've been noodling the poll idea for a bit now and have a few thoughts on the issue.

First, I think if we're going to do something similar to the DJ list, the best way to go about it would be to run a poll similar to the TA top 250 poll (but maybe only a top 50? I'm not sure) and refresh is once per month i.e. Everyone can vote once per month, at the end of the month each poll/thread is closed after having the end results posted, and the next months poll begins.

My only concern with this methodology is that the poll could become a novelty that not many people participate in each month. It is by this logic that I'd suggest considering the following:

- An annual poll would more than likely ensure significant participation as it could be highly publicized on TA (cross forum).

- A bi-annual (twice yearly) poll would display change/reflect new talent only slightly more often, but may still be infrequent enough to not discourage participation.

- A quarterly poll may more accurately reflect change over a shorter period of time, but participation may suffer for the same reason a monthly poll would.

In the end, I think annual or bi-annual polling would be best; It would at very least ensure higher participation as people wouldn't "get tired" polling. The less frequently it occurs, the longer you can promote the poll, the more likely people who don't frequent the promo forum will find their way here and listen to some things.

The only other issue that I have to raise is how do we keep this poll to TA DJ's and avoid some of the "bigger names" that frequent TA from dominating the poll time in and time out? In general I guess I feel if we're going to do this poll, we should try to do it in a manner that will likely help promote up and coming talent, and not reinforce the status of well established DJ's who consistently place in the DJ Mag or TA DJ poll each year. I honestly don't know a good way to deal with this as all too often a TA DJ/producer finds a fair amount of success - And that's no reason to exclude someone who's been a contributing member of this forum for a good amount of time.

Just some thoughts... Hopefully we can ration this out sometime soon

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last minute disco dot net

Why do you guys want a poll though? How will it really benefit us as DJ's? There could easily be some great DJ's on here that will go totally unnoticed because they don't know anybody, whereas others who are widely known are going to attract more attention, and thus garner more votes.

I think there'd be an unfair bias here with the poll.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Why do you guys want a poll though? How will it really benefit us as DJ's? There could easily be some great DJ's on here that will go totally unnoticed because they don't know anybody, whereas others who are widely known are going to attract more attention, and thus garner more votes. I think there'd be an unfair bias here with the poll.

+1

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Why do you guys want a poll though? How will it really benefit us as DJ's? There could easily be some great DJ's on here that will go totally unnoticed because they don't know anybody, whereas others who are widely known are going to attract more attention, and thus garner more votes. I think there'd be an unfair bias here with the poll.

Perhaps that would be the case, but if anything I think it may encourage more active participation in this forum.

The number of people who post mixes on here month in and month out without contributing anything else to the forums is staggering - A poll may give some incentive for people to actually pay attention and critically review others sets.

It goes without saying that TA is a community where you get what you give with regard to feedback - You take the time to review someones mix and odds are they'll return the favor. I think a poll may encourage people to start reaching out and listening to / reviewing things they wouldn't normally in order to attract more attention to their work. Doesn't this benefit us all?

I'm not saying it's a perfect system or idea, I just wonder if it can be done in a worthwhile manner.

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last minute disco dot net

Last edited by RJT on Oct-25-2006 at 22:12

I like what both Rob and Infinity have said. I think that yes, a poll is an excellent idea for improving interest in this part of the forum, but the main concern is for those popular CORe-whores who will be voted for over the people who simply post mixes here.

Maybe there's another way to increase interest?

Perhaps select a panel of five people or so that is willing to listen to all of the mixes posted here and select a "featured mix" every month? The judges, of course, would not only be comprised of those interested in different genres, but those who are also open to different genres and are willing to grade not off of subjectivity.

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Originally posted by idoru I like what both Rob and Infinity have said. I think that yes, a poll is an excellent idea for improving interest in this part of the forum, but the main concern is for those popular CORe-whores who will be voted for over the people who simply post mixes here. Maybe there's another way to increase interest? Perhaps select a panel of five people or so that is willing to listen to all of the mixes posted here and select a "featured mix" every month?

Good idea- Would be tough doing it alone- we still have a problem with volume though, so many mixes!

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

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Originally posted by Allied Nations Good idea- Would be tough doing it alone- we still have a problem with volume though, so many mixes!

We have to find a way to get more people involved or it simply won't work. To expect a small group of people to listen to everything would be very difficult, and at the end of the day, unfair. If we don't have a solid community of people regularly contributing, any kind of poll/mix of the month/rating system/artist showcase won't be at all objective. This is my only reasoning behind a poll/rating system - I think it may be the only thing that actually encourages a large number of people to take the time and critically listen to new music.

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last minute disco dot net