quote:

Originally posted by occrider My debt to disposable income ratio? Yea it's huge. I can't afford to buy a parking lot in dupont circle.

It's one of the few places where you can say, "My home IS my retirement plan!"

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Originally posted by juzfugen /sigh ignorance is bliss I guess.. First off my job is not online, my famaily owns this business and has for 30+ years and TBH I really dont have to work a day in my life but I went that route through my early 20's and found myself quite bored with life.

My God, how tacky. The fact that you even felt it was necessary to mention that speaks volumes about your character. I doubt anybody is impressed that you're sponging off mommy and daddy's success.

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People are ALWAYS going to buy house and the vast majority of them will never be able to pay cash for them so my industry or my job arent going anywhere.

Right. Assuming they can afford it and the alternatives such as rental or living with their parents (as you probably do) aren't that much more attractive. That doesn't mean prices won't fluctuate or that people won't default on their loans. Nevermind increasing default rates and slowing home sales. Remember, it's the change at the margin, not the absolute level that determines a trend.

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You seem to have some misconception that loan officer/mortgage brokers actually have any say on whenther or not a loan gets approved, sorry to burst your bubble but we dont. So your little snide comments can stop right there it clear youre uneducated on this subject matter.

I apologize. I just assumed by your comments about how successful you are that you actually had more clout. It would appear that you're just a pencil pusher, not a decision maker.

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There are guidlines set by the secondary market we have to follow, I take youve never heard of underwriters.. You have to make a certain amount of money You have to show job stability minimum 2 years at the same place Your debt to income can not exceede 36%(this includes the proposed p&i payment) You have to show cash reserves anywhere from 4 to 6 months and it can not be gifted. And your credit score has meet guidelines ( this is going to dictate your rate) If you have less then steller credit yes you can get a loan but you will have to pony up a minimum of 20% of the purchase price plus closing cost. On a 200k house that 40k down plus closing which will be 7k plus reserves which is roughly another 5k. How many people with bad credit do you know who can gather up 50k+ in cash to purchase a house? Not too many, if they had that kind of cash their credit wouldnt be that bad, you can adjust the purchase price to whatever area but the formula wont change.

Were we not talking about low-doc/no-doc, stated-income loans? I am the first person to admit that I got a much more buyer-friendly mortgage than I probably otherwise would've gotten at any other time in recent history. I put all of $6K down (though it was not required and ultimately went more towards my closing costs than anything else). While I have no problem paying my monthly mortgage, my adjustable portion of the loan has already increased a couple of times as rates have risen. At the margin, my monthly payments have gone up about $150, which in isolation isn't a big deal. However, coupled with a lot of other structural issues going on like persistently high energy costs, record levels of consumer debt, record levels of cash-our refinancings, etc...that $150 becomes a little more than just a blip on the radar and for a lot of people on the lower end of the credit spectrum who are already stretched, it's a big deal. Choose to turn a blind eye to it if you like (as many in your industry seem to be doing), but there is plenty of tangible evidence out there that all is not rosy in oompa-loompa land.

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So you run a hedgefund? by your ignorance on this subject, I'll think I'll pass on investing. Glad to see you've read the front page of just about every financial magazine and newspaper for the last years stating how rates are going up and housing will start slowing down, good job on those shorts I think I hear Gordon Gecko knocking on your door.

Don't run one, I work with 2 other guys managing one. That was more for full disclosure (as I stated my biased position) than to engage in a pissing contest. If you had been on this forum longer, you would probably know that by now anyway. I'm not boasting about my overall performance, but the part about making money on risky mortage finance companies is true. We initally lost money on them by being early, but we ultimately have profitted handsomely on the trades because we (like many) have been right.

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What does Walmart getting in the financial field have to do with any of this and yes I knew about it, it was announced over a year ago. But let me return the favor, did you know Target,GM and Nordstrom along with atleast half a dozen other wll known companies are banks, thrift charters and run ILCS? What effect does any of this have on the mortgage business......... NOTHING! H&R Block along with EVERY MAJOR financial institution is in the mortgage business, Chase (ala JP Morgan), Merryl Lynch, Goldman Sachs.

It illustrates the point of frenzy/bubble. The fact that it doesn't concern you that everybody and their brother is jumping into the finance business is, in and of itself, concerning.

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Stop with this did you know bullshit ok I already told you Ive been in finance in one form or another for damn near 14 years and you arent impressing anyone.

I guess you're just albert fucking einstein swinging a 12" dick. How dare anyone question your words of wisdom. I could care less whether you're impressed or not. That wasn't the point.

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How is the economy on shaky footing, debt is high doesnt = shaky economy. I cant give out loans to who ever I want the business doesnt work that way.

I thought you were well read. Guess you've been drinking more kool-aid than I thought.

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No one flipped properties in hopes of passing off liabilities, they were flipped for profit

Sure. It's profitable until someone sells it for a loss. Then it becomes a liability. Do you think you're posting in the COR? Flipped from fool to greater fool until some fool is left holding the bag. Just get in early and get out early and you'll be fine. The last time I checked, debt didn't go in the asset column.

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what you call mania is the samething that happened in the 90's with the tech boom. Every decade there is a flourishing industry that get heavily invested in - tech, oil, realestate, and money. Heres a little hint for ya real estate ALWAYS appreciates.

Well that's just retarded. On an infinite timeline, the survival rate for anything goes to zero. What a useless statistic you've just provided us. Nobody in the history of the world has ever sold property at a loss. Riiiiiight.

Last edited by Shakka on May-04-2006 at 21:08

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Originally posted by Shakka the rapid growth of emerging markets like China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc.

Heh... we're letting the world down since the 70's, I wonder whether we will manage to actually grow this time

___________________
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Originally posted by Shakka My God, how tacky. The fact that you even felt it was necessary to mention that speaks volumes about your character. I doubt anybody is impressed that you're sponging off mommy and daddy's success.

Typical 1+1=3 nonsense
My parents own a real estate brokerage firm, I went to UT Austin graduated with a degree in finance. (currently half way through my MBA)
Worked at my friends car dealship as finance director, got bored decided to open a mortgage brokerage firm in 1999 and office with my parents real estate company. I started it on my own, financed it on my own.
Take your tacky I mean jealousy and shove it up your ass, I could honestly careless what you think of my character, I know I am fortunate enough to be born into the famaily I have and yes I am a trust fund baby but I also know Ive worked my ass off getting to where I'm at now.

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Originally posted by Shakka Right. Assuming they can afford it and the alternatives such as rental or living with their parents (as you probably do) aren't that much more attractive. That doesn't mean prices won't fluctuate or that people won't default on their loans. Nevermind increasing default rates and slowing home sales. Remember, it's the change at the margin, not the absolute level that determines a trend..

Sow me a time in the last 100 years where there have been no homes sales for a quarter, a month or even a week in the USA.....
you cant hence my saying people will always buy homes and my job industry is secure. BTW for the third time im in my early 30's and havent lived mommy or daddy in over 14 years

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Originally posted by Shakka I apologize. I just assumed by your comments about how successful you are that you actually had more clout. It would appear that you're just a pencil pusher, not a decision maker. ..

rofl clout has nothing to do with it, this comment by you leads me to believe youre full of shit when saying you work for an investment firm due to your utter lack of knowledge of how this industry works.

FYI go open your yellow pages/white pages and look up mortgage brokers, now see all those company names and numbers, not a single one of them or anyone at their office makes the decision on if a loan get approved.

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Originally posted by Shakka Were we not talking about low-doc/no-doc, stated-income loans? I am the first person to admit that I got a much more buyer-friendly mortgage than I probably otherwise would've gotten at any other time in recent history. I put all of $6K down (though it was not required and ultimately went more towards my closing costs than anything else). While I have no problem paying my monthly mortgage, my adjustable portion of the loan has already increased a couple of times as rates have risen. At the margin, my monthly payments have gone up about $150, which in isolation isn't a big deal. However, coupled with a lot of other structural issues going on like persistently high energy costs, record levels of consumer debt, record levels of cash-our refinancings, etc...that $150 becomes a little more than just a blip on the radar and for a lot of people on the lower end of the credit spectrum who are already stretched, it's a big deal. Choose to turn a blind eye to it if you like (as many in your industry seem to be doing), but there is plenty of tangible evidence out there that all is not rosy in oompa-loompa land...

Umm no we werent, it small comment made by you and myself and neither of us made it a focal point of discussion. But I do have serious problem with this passage here, you seem to clutter things together which have no effect on each other.

Why is part of your loan an arm? Even if you did a first and second so you dont have to pay pmi neither should be an arm, especially if you are so intuned to the economy why on earth have you not converted your loan into a non adjusting loan? Only reason I can think of is if you have shit credit and the only way you could get financed is by doing a 2/1-3/1 to re establish yourself and refi 2 to 3 years down the road once you have a good payment tradeline, if thats the case you reap what you sow otherwise I have no idea why someone of your stature would still be in an arm.

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Originally posted by Shakka Don't run one, I work with 2 other guys managing one. That was more for full disclosure (as I stated my biased position) than to engage in a pissing contest. If you had been on this forum longer, you would probably know that by now anyway. I'm not boasting about my overall performance, but the part about making money on risky mortage finance companies is true. We initally lost money on them by being early, but we ultimately have profitted handsomely on the trades because we (like many) have been right....

I'm calling bullshit here just based on the way this conversation has gone between us, your answer show me you have no grasp on how homeloans actually operate. As I said ive been in the mortage biz for several years and I dont claim to know everything, but I have lunch with my financial advisor atleast twice a month and hes almost as well versed about mortages as I am which leads me to wonder why you really dont know too much about it.

"If Ive been on this forum longer".......? Check join dates Ive been here 2 years longer then you

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Originally posted by Shakka It illustrates the point of frenzy/bubble. The fact that it doesn't concern you that everybody and their brother is jumping into the finance business is, in and of itself, concerning.

Explain why its concerning now but it wasnt concerning before, or hell just explain why its concerning at all
/me grabs popcorn and waits for this one

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Originally posted by Shakka I guess you're just albert fucking einstein swinging a 12" dick. How dare anyone question your words of wisdom. I could care less whether you're impressed or not. That wasn't the point.

whoa there nelly, I'm not the one swinging away that would be you by emphasizing how its commen knowledge blah blah blah. Like I said stop repeating headlines and add some depth to this conversation.

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Originally posted by Shakka I thought you were well read. Guess you've been drinking more kool-aid than I thought.

great arguement there point well conveyed
must be depressing to be the perpetual bear

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Originally posted by Shakka Well that's just retarded. On an infinite timeline, the survival rate for anything goes to zero. What a useless statistic you've just provided us. Nobody in the history of the world has ever sold property at a loss. Riiiiiight. .

once again 1+1=3
I didnt provide a statistic, it was an observation, try and disprove it. And where did I say no one has lost money on real estate? Please reqoute and highlight.

I think you are full of it, you dont work for a hedge fund manager or if you do you are just peon at the company who brings everyone coffee, the only reason I bring this up is because of how you repsond in this thread, it clearly shows to anyone who has the slightest concept of lending that you dont know what the hell you are talking about, so either you are clueless or full of shit. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and lean towards the latter.

Blah Blah Blah, my daddy can beat up your daddy...

Come on guys, seriously...

You both work in different parts of the finance world, that's nice.

Is all this public justification really required?

Regardless of chosen field of career, everything posted is still opinion anyways, so why all the ruffled feathers?

Bah, why am I even posting this?? GAH!

go get a room or somethin'

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Blah Blah Blah, my daddy can beat up your daddy... Come on guys, seriously... You both work in different parts of the finance world, that's nice. Is all this public justification really required? Regardless of chosen field of career, everything posted is still opinion anyways, so why all the ruffled feathers? Bah, why am I even posting this?? GAH! go get a room or somethin'

lol. Guess I let that one get under my skin a bit. That's why there's 2 sides to the market (if not more). Wanna see some funny market banter take a look at the Doral Financial message board on Yahoo Finance.

I guess we'll just re-visit this topic over the next 12-18 months to see how things pan out and then we can pass judgement on the validity of our lively debate. I predict juzfukkin still have a job and millions of dollars, but I also predict that his industry will have changed materially, and probably not for the better. I choose to bet that the risks are getting much more heavily weighted to the downside. Cheers and best of luck you, juzfukkin.

I'm gonna go jerk-off on my Mercedes. Seriously.

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Originally posted by Shakka lol. Guess I let that one get under my skin a bit. That's why there's 2 sides to the market (if not more). Wanna see some funny market banter take a look at the Doral Financial message board on Yahoo Finance. I guess we'll just re-visit this topic over the next 12-18 months to see how things pan out and then we can pass judgement on the validity of our lively debate. I predict juzfukkin still have a job and millions of dollars, but I also predict that his industry will have changed materially, and probably not for the better. I choose to bet that the risks are getting much more heavily weighted to the downside. Cheers and best of luck you, juzfukkin. I'm gonna go jerk-off on my Mercedes. Seriously.

Hey? What ever happened I thought we were going to pm one each other and such?

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Hey? What ever happened I thought we were going to pm one each other and such?

I sent you a reply.

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Originally posted by Shakka I sent you a reply.

Just one

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Just one

uh... Did you have anymore questions?

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Originally posted by Shakka uh... Did you have anymore questions?

yea, aren't you forty?

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid yea, aren't you forty?

no, not yet. Sometimes I feel like it, though.