quote:

Originally posted by Tom Yelland Was with you all the way until Alex Morph. Started off having Stoneface & Terminal make all his tunes and I'm pretty sure his stuff after 2006/7 has also all been using a ghost producer too. If I'm wrong about that, hold my hands up. But there are still far more talented producers imo. Airwave is by far the most talented Trance producer. I'd also add Digital Blonde, Simon Berry (Art of Trance) and Dave Parkinson

No offense to Dave Parkinson but I had to google him and he's a certainly a dope pick.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken To me a talented producer is someone who are making groundbreaking and timeless scene defining music at a very young age and keeps true to the integrity of the art over time without losing the creativity and also somewhat keep in touch with the scene and the crowds by staying relevant. I struggle to name many as a lot of the big names just follows a formula especially within the hey days of stadium trance with Ferry, M.I.K.E. and the like. But Oliver Lieb and Simon Posford of course have both been great on and off for close to 30 years now, no question about it they are the top of the trance producers list without selling out. But in my opinion we have to look at other club genres to find higher volumes of artists with true creativity, in particular techno. Sven Vath, Richie Hawtin and Luke Slater is up there in my book. Basic Channel, Casseopaya, Joey Beltram to name a few more. Same with Chris Liebing + Speedy J + Gary Beck joint ventures as well as Riccardo Ferri (and all his support to Mauro Picottos label and music), Technasia, Secret Cinema, Agoria, James Holden and then we go towards weirdness. No particular order here. And Armin+Tiesto.

Sven Vath who has never made a tune without a ghost producer? I'm presuming "Armin+Tiesto" is just sarcasm at the end.

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Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

Personal taste is always part of the equation, but that doesn't mean everything is a matter of opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken Never assume anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken They both had some good tracks way back and they both have had amazing success so the statement can be seen as objective. My personal opinion doesn’t matter in this setting.

Is opining objectively to the exclusion of your personal thoughts on the matter in question your special power?

To have had "amazing success" isn't quite the same as being talented. Which are some good tracks of theirs? What would be the odds SYSTEM-J is going to agree with you on them? Tiësto's career and success has been in large part based on having great producers and brilliant managers around him at all times. Who builds a career merely on the merit of sloppy mixing when playing the clubs and stadiums and a complete disregard of such a thing as harmonic set building, to mention just one other aspect of the trade? With regard to production---there's probably a good reason why Tiësto didn't even bother to play some of the stuff he supposedly produced. Of those tracks that were commercially successful, a significant part wasn't really original work, in the post-Silence-remix period when he put out trance tracks. And when it wasn't based on other tracks either of his own team's (Nyana) or of other people's (Suburban Train, Traffic, etc.), it was largely the skills of Dennis WR that made the Tiësto brand successful as a producer.

Armin, on the contrary, is notoriously talented---a brilliant radio presenter (literally from the start, back in 2001), a shrewd businessman, highly educated, fine DJing skills, excellent at knowing what the audience wants and what will make profit (though never without the business partners), knows the producing trade (despite the involvement of e.g. Benno de Goeij). However, the majority of tracks and remixes he did back in the day, and probably on his own, never really stood out. There was, for instance, not much of real interest on the first AvB album in terms of trance; remixes post-2001 were usually derivative, samey, boring (such as of SS - 7 Cities, Janeiro, Rapture, etc.). Obviously I like to think this is objectively true and I am always right anyway, but well, you know eh?

End of babbling.

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What is the real aesthetic?

To me, and this is just me talking, it sounds like Zak McKracken is right.

quote:

They both had some good tracks way back and they both have had amazing success so the statement can be seen as objective. My personal opinion doesn’t matter in this setting. We are looking for the best producer of all times.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think people like Tiesto or Vath who literally can't produce a track on their own can be objectively considered the "best producer of all time".

___________________
Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

Well, I did understand the irony, but then you gave a serious answer to justify yourself.

The question is typical Mattsanity open-ended garbage, but if you're going to answer it with any seriousness I think you have to judge producers on their actual quality of production, not necessarily on their writing or their taste. In this sense, BT is quite a sensible answer. Although he's made (mostly) terrible music for almost 20 straight years now, as a producer there's absolutely no doubting he's an astonishing talent who's worked in a massive array of genres, showcased many different techniques and even pioneered one or two of them himself.


Otherwise this is just going to turn into yet another "My Favourite Artist" thread.

___________________
Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken Talent and best is not the same either. Some talents are lost before even getting started. BT was super talented but wasted it completely on bullshit music.

Best is what I meant but if there's a distinction, then I guess this thread is flawed especially if an artist falls off or sells out.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J if you're going to answer it with any seriousness I think you have to judge producers on their actual quality of production, not necessarily on their writing or their taste. In this sense, BT is quite a sensible answer. Although he's made (mostly) terrible music for almost 20 straight years now, as a producer there's absolutely no doubting he's an astonishing talent who's worked in a massive array of genres, showcased many different techniques and even pioneered one or two of them himself. Otherwise this is just going to turn into yet another "My Favourite Artist" thread.

How I looked at that. There's no denying his technical and musical abilities. I appreciated This Binary Universe but I couldn't care less about anything else he did in the 21st Century.

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Ronski Speed B2B Tiesto
I DRANK AND MADE A MIX SERIES
Vol One-Vol Two-Vol Three-Vol Four-Vol Five-Vol Six
I ALSO LIVESTREAMED
THE LAST FLIGHT - PROGRESSIVE HOUSE/TRANCE

Last edited by Camwin on Nov-18-2021 at 23:31

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken I thought Sven Vath made a lot of eurodance before going into rave and techno but I really don’t know. He just have some unique albums and managed to stay relevant for decades.

I must interject a 'well actually' here, as even his early eurodance phase was in tandem with the chaps behind Snap!

/oh snap!

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!
(~)

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken Good points so Sven is probably not worth the nomination of the category. He had lots of impact to the techno scene as a dj, club owner and label manager and in general just a freak but as talented producer based on this new information I withdraw my statement, I just wanted to nominate some other people than the usual suspects

Your contribution is invaluable, mate. This thread really became more insightful than it deserves to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken Good points so Sven is probably not worth the nomination of the category. He had lots of impact to the techno scene as a dj, club owner and label manager and in general just a freak but as talented producer based on this new information I withdraw my statement, I just wanted to nominate some other people than the usual suspects

He no doubt has a very creative mind, but like many others in this scene, relies on talented producers to help see them to fruition.

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!
(~)