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Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
Originally posted by zookeeper
...But you do have a point..."children" may need to be treated like children.


I'm still surprised though that governments could do a lot more than they do to at least educate people in spending behaviour, starting precisely with that- children.
Responsible budget management and household finance being taught as a mandatory subject in schools at a very simple and practical level at a young age and go into the more complicated things as they get older like understanding credit systems and how they work, practical management of those and consequences of using them.
Both good and bad.
(Don't get me wrong about saying easily available credit is an 'all bad thing' at all. In the right circumstances you really can make it work in your favour)
Don't know how it is now, but that kind of thing was never really touched on much in high school, I was lucky to pick up business practice at community college and off relatives. With a large percentage of responsible borrowers it will offset the deadbeats so finance institutions don't have to be so pushy about it, it also negates the dodgy credit sales by having an educated populace which know how it works and what to avoid- they'll dry up in short order with no customers

And most importantly, a mandatory education will cross social boundaries which are otherwise limiting people's experience to that of their family and peer behaviour. There's a lot of reasons poor people stay poor and rich stay rich and a lot of it has to do with how they're raised.

Enough 'dirty socialist' ramblings from me though

Old Post Jun-01-2007 04:02 
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zookeeper
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Rochester, New York - on the shore of Lake Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
that kind of thing was never really touched on much in high school


All I learned was the basics of managing a checkbook and a some definition of banking terms...that's it really.

quote:

And most importantly, a mandatory education will cross social boundaries which are otherwise limiting people's experience to that of their family and peer behaviour. There's a lot of reasons poor people stay poor and rich stay rich and a lot of it has to do with how they're raised.


The poor and middle class would need to be the most educated, because they need manage their finances directly. Rich people have entire teams of lawyers, financial advisors, power of attorney people, trust officers and so on...

ie: Why is Paris Hilton so stupid?....She can afford to be.


quote:

Enough 'dirty socialist' ramblings from me though


Old Post Jun-03-2007 05:19  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by zookeeper
All I learned was the basics of managing a checkbook and a some definition of banking terms...that's it really.


Same here.
Sad really considering how far in debt. my generation is. :sad:
I've learned more about managing personal finances from books and successful business people than school ever did.

I've always believed school only prepares you, truly, for more school.
As soon as you step out of that bubble, you're pretty much on your own.

quote:

The poor and middle class would need to be the most educated, because they need manage their finances directly. Rich people have entire teams of lawyers, financial advisors, power of attorney people, trust officers and so on...


While it's true that the rich can afford others to manage their money, the poor and middle class just don't do the same things the rich do.
It's more a mindset when it comes to managing money more than dumb luck or inheritance (aka Hilton).
Those that come across a windfall but never knew the basics of handling money to begin with almost always end up broke in the end anyways. (Just look up past lotto winners and see where they've ended up after 5 yrs or so).


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Jun-03-2007 06:03  Canada
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Those that come across a windfall but never knew the basics of handling money to begin with almost always end up broke in the end anyways. (Just look up past lotto winners and see where they've ended up after 5 yrs or so).


Yup. To an extent those uber rich just have a ridiculous cushion of wealth to pad their spending, but at the end of the day they can be equally, if not more, reckless with their finances and can end up in plenty of hot water. Just take a look at Mike Tyson--broke. I mean who blows a fat wad of cash on their own personal bengal tiger for chrissakes? Michael Jackson--supposedly so swamped in debt that he's got very little to his name. Even Donald Trump was once apparently on the verge of bankruptcy not too long ago. Of course one thing those rich celebs can do when they're in a bind is to simply try to use their celebrity power to get back on their feet whether it's by going on the Surreal Life (awful show), celebrity boxing, or some other god awful sellout.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just cuz they're rich, doesn't mean they don't make horrendous financial decisions, despite having a team of accountants to run their books. They just seem to have more levers they can pull than the average Joe if they get themselves into a bit of trouble.

Old Post Jun-03-2007 12:14  United States
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zookeeper
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Rochester, New York - on the shore of Lake Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
. They just seem to have more levers they can pull than the average Joe if they get themselves into a bit of trouble.


Donald Trump has been in financial trouble before (several times, since 1985) but he does seem to get someone to back him.

If our situations were the same, who would get a loan, me or him? I'd be talking to some banking branch manager, he be talking to the president of the bank. I think that if you make "The Million Club" just once, your social circle can protect you, so if you blow it, they figure you can make it back.

Old Post Jun-03-2007 14:04  United States
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zookeeper
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Rochester, New York - on the shore of Lake Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
inheritance


You made me think of something...

I would love to know the real number of people, in our generation, who are secretly (or not) depending on money they will hopefully receive from dying relatives. Having a plan that kinda' goes like...."Once Great Auntie kicks the bucket, my money woes (credit cards) will be all gone!"

...and who would admit that?


(My relatives all borrow money from me ...uh oh)

Old Post Jun-03-2007 14:19  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by zookeeper
You made me think of something...

I would love to know the real number of people, in our generation, who are secretly (or not) depending on money they will hopefully receive from dying relatives. Having a plan that kinda' goes like...."Once Great Auntie kicks the bucket, my money woes (credit cards) will be all gone!"

...and who would admit that?


(My relatives all borrow money from me ...uh oh)


Where did you say you lived?


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Jun-03-2007 14:53  Canada
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Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
I guess what I'm trying to say is that just cuz they're rich, doesn't mean they don't make horrendous financial decisions, despite having a team of accountants to run their books. They just seem to have more levers they can pull than the average Joe if they get themselves into a bit of trouble.


It's called offshore, undeclared assets which can't be touched (and taxed) by the domestic government. Risky sometimes depending on the corporate law where you live, but that's why lawyers or even shadier people come into it.
So, if you do manage to burn down the farm so to speak, tap into other sources you have in addition to social networking.

Not that I know anything about it myself!

Old Post Jun-03-2007 15:16 
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by zookeeper
Donald Trump has been in financial trouble before (several times, since 1985) but he does seem to get someone to back him.

If our situations were the same, who would get a loan, me or him? I'd be talking to some banking branch manager, he be talking to the president of the bank. I think that if you make "The Million Club" just once, your social circle can protect you, so if you blow it, they figure you can make it back.


A very good point indeed.

Old Post Jun-03-2007 20:17  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by zookeeper
You made me think of something...

I would love to know the real number of people, in our generation, who are secretly (or not) depending on money they will hopefully receive from dying relatives. Having a plan that kinda' goes like...."Once Great Auntie kicks the bucket, my money woes (credit cards) will be all gone!"


I actually have been to a business seminar where they did bring up stats like that.
Percentage that believed that before they retire, they'd win the lottery, find a windfall, have family to take care of them or receive an inheritance as part of their financial plan.
It's a lot larger number than you may be thinking...it's sad really...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Jun-03-2007 21:46  Canada
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zookeeper
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Rochester, New York - on the shore of Lake Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Percentage that believed that before they retire, they'd win the lottery, find a windfall, have family to take care of them or receive an inheritance


***sound of steam escaping***

THIS is the poisoned thinking that is going to lead to BIG, BIG problems in the future!!

Do people know that you have a better chance of FINDING a bag of money, than winning the lottery!! I call the lottery "A Tax on Being Stupid"!

***sound of hair being pulled out***

"Someone to take care of me..." I think this is the single phrase that makes me NUTS! When the HELL did this mode of thought become the norm! I once heard a college speaker advising students to live with Mom and Dad for as long as they would let you. A 35 year old man living in the basement of his Mom's house IS NOT FUNNY!
Even if you are living in a "one room closet", you are living by your own wits and you will be MUCH MUCH better prepared for the various waves of excrement that life throws at you.

AND another thing!....

***bile and blood pressure rising***

Insurance is very high because no one wants to be responsible for anything.

"My insurance will TAKE CARE of that..."

How many people have a ZERO deductable on their car/home insurance?

The first thing asked in business, medical, contracting, entertainment, fundraisers, school dances etc...IS "we need a copy of your insurance certificate"

I don't care for the pop term of "Entitlement Generation" but it does seem to hold a little water.

GIMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE!! I'm here so I deserve it! WHAAhhh

***end of fractured rant***

Old Post Jun-03-2007 23:45  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

There is no free lunch, much as many would like to believe it. Gotta love the entitlement mentality. Yeah, we need more entitlement spending! An adult that still needs a babysitter and a nipple to suckle on is absolutely pathetic.

Old Post Jun-04-2007 02:22  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > America's Debt = "We're Screwed!"
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