quote:

Originally posted by Lilith It's far easier to heckle, deride and insult my intelligence, read your books, articles than actually go out into the big wide world and see just how much it reeks of human idiocy and laziness.

Could not of said that better myself......
I have been called Jock, Red Neck, ignorant, ass and so forth on this board....
there are allot of these types you described on here that love to sit here after they heard the latest prof or read some book or watched some youube video then they adopt some belief or idiotic POV that makes me fear for the future...... (911 ring a bell?)

Kind of like wearing a Che shirt, or towing the party line for Chavez, The Beard (Castro) or even a group of people that will cut our heads off for just having an account on Great SATAN's Trance Addict Board.
As long as that ignorant in the real world person gets his rocks off by insulting the very country, culture or people that gave them an opportunity to learn and to make something out of their lives..... sad

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Of course that's your contention. You're a first year grad student. You just got finished readin' some Marxian historian -- Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'til next month when you get to James Lemon, and then you're gonna be talkin' about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year -- you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

so true....

Last edited by LazFX on Aug-22-2007 at 13:28

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Originally posted by LazFX Could not of said that better myself......

Unfortunatley I haven't done any of what she accused me of. If that's how she wishes to intepret it then that's her problem, not mine. It certainly wasn't intended to come across like that (and imo it doesn't come across like that)

I have never said I know any more than anyone else because of my education, and my education definately should not mean I know any more than anyone else - I have opinions based on what I have found out for myself, just like everyone else.

Telling someone their opinion doesn't count because they have an education however, seems a little odd, and makes it sound like your arguments have dried up (and don't have the decency to admit it)

Oh and LazFX, lets say my opinions are based on academic sources - what are yours based on?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Oh and LazFX, lets say my opinions are based on academic sources - what are yours based on?

The same and life....

what?? can't a Hispanic have an edumacation?? huh?? massa??

and thats the prob, you stated that you know nothing about Venezuela. But you will sit here and try to convince people that have probably heard about him most of their young adult lives....

thats not saying you are stupid, its that you are ignorant.. ever heard the phrase "there are always two sides to a story"?

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Originally posted by George Smiley And as someone who knows nothing about Venezuala, perhaps you could provide me with some trustworthy source to back up your claims that Venezuala is a dictatorship? Was Chavez not elected by the people?

how about news from immigrants, stories of family's loosing everything, Drs and Professors jailed, Media sources getting shut down.
But if its reported by CNN, ABC, BBC, or anyone that is against your POV of what a trusted news source is, it all ...... Bollocks??

oh and jorge........ I was the dirt poor of all poor, almost went as far as getting on Welfare while both my wife and I went to university...with a baby at home. I worked my ass off and now a few years later I have a job with the feds, make damn good money, sending all of my kids; 3 to private schools and you know what..... *I still think that their should be free medical, schooling and others. I admire what Chavez wants to do, cause once a socialist always a socialist
but he is going about it the wrong way.......
unlike some on here, I remember where the fuck I came from....I feel for the poor, but I detest the Lazy.

Well if you're basing your opinions on your education then you, like me, must be wrong!!!

The reason I want to know about Chavez is prescisely because I can see holes in what is reported about him that just don't seem to add up. The original point to this thread, and the reaction from certain posters, is the best example I can give. IMO, a non-story has got the right-wingers in a rage and there must be some explanation for that.

But no, I don't know a hell of a lot about Venezuela, other than what I have picked up recently.

You give the example of "media sources getting shut down" - which suggests this is a common practice by Chavez (that's certainly the impression I get from you and others and certain sections of the media) - but from what I have skimmed through recently, I have only seen that one TV station has had its licence renewal rejected - RCTV, the company accused of supporting the CIA-backed coup. Now you tell me how Americans view al-Jazeera just for having a different point of view, and how some US politicians want to bomb their HQ in Qatar! How would they react if that station encouraged military action against the US mainland?!

What I also discovered is that 80% of the media in Venezuela is rabidly anti-Chavez. That doesn't quite tie in with the notion of mass media censorship does it?

You then say about Drs and Professionals being jailed, but don't go into any details. For all I know these people are innocent, or they may be serial killers! Can you tell me what they went to jail for?

You also need to tell me what class immigrants critical of Chavez come from because if they are from poor backgrounds their criticisms will be a lot stronger than those from the upper classes who have lost out to Chavez'z economic policies

(And congrats for breaking out of the Ghetto! It's obviously possible but would you say it's the norm?)

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Originally posted by George Smiley (And congrats for breaking out of the Ghetto! It's obviously possible but would you say it's the norm?)

Actually, that reminds me of a good point to back up my arguments that capitalist societies require certain proportions of people at different levels of the employment ladder - most at the bottom.

You were from an unprivalaged background but managed to escape because you and your wife bust your arse and went to Uni. That's fine, but in the UK (can't speak for any other countries) degrees are becoming less and less meaningful as more people go to uni. My parents followed a similar route to you - coming from the poorest of poor families but taking advantage of free university education (and I mean completely free plus a grant each year of study, unlike today where it costs £2k + a student loan to cover living expenses) and only few went to university. Today, around 35% go to uni with a government target of eventually 50%! Today, there are 40 graduates for each graduate job, if the governments targets are met that means there will be around 60 graduates for each graduate job.

So you can kinda see that the amounts of jobs out there at different levels stay constant, and even with a degree, you more likely than not not to get a graduate job because there aren't enough. Only a fraction of graduates will make it to the dizzy heights Capitalizt seems to think everyone can get to.

If everyone had a degree, no matter what background they came from, most of them would still have to flip burgers in MacDonalds...

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ever heard the phrase "there are always two sides to a story"?

MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley My country puts the clocks forwards and backwards one hour at various points during the year to increase the amount of daylight we have. There is a campaign to change permanantely to British Summer Time (GMT+1) to keep crime down etc. If Chavez thinks it's a good idea to increase the amount of daylight then he would have a lot who agree around the world. Does Canada not operate a daylight saving time in the summer? If so do you think they're mad?!

Daylight savings and what Hugo is purposing aren't even scientifically related...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Daylight savings and what Hugo is purposing aren't even scientifically related...

Ok then, scientifically, more sunlight is good for you because of vitamin D

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Originally posted by George Smiley If you're going to continue to equate the welfare state (and your criticisms of it) to unemployment benefits then your arguments simply do not stand up.

True, 6+ years on and off in international sales, business auditing and sales coaching in the US, UK, Australia, Japan, most of SE-Asia and Europe make me completely ignorant to the facets of human nature, employment and people's predilections in and out of the workforce.
Sorry if I'm not qualified enough to call a spade a spade...

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This is the second time you've made this mistake iirc.

I keep saying it because I don't agree with you.

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Originally posted by Lilith True, 6+ years on and off in international sales, business auditing and sales coaching in the US, UK, Australia, Japan, most of SE-Asia and Europe make me completely ignorant to the facets of human nature, employment and people's predilections in and out of the workforce. Sorry if I'm not qualified enough to call a spade a spade...

Do you know what the welfare state is?

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I keep saying it because I don't agree with you.

Eh? There isn't any scope for disagreement! I'm telling you what democracy, capiatlism and socialism actually means because you've demonstrated that you don't know!

By saying socialism and democracy are at opposite ends of the political spectrum suggests you don't know what either term means.

Sorry if you think that means I'm calling you a "drop kick" (whatever one of those is) but I'm honestly not, it's just you can't criticise socialism by saying it's not democratic when everything ever written about socialist ideologies says that it is!

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith True, 6+ years on and off in international sales, business auditing and sales coaching in the US, UK, Australia, Japan, most of SE-Asia and Europe make me completely ignorant to the facets of human nature, employment and people's predilections in and out of the workforce. Sorry if I'm not qualified enough to call a spade a spade...

Yeah, I know... all of that real life experience and you still are, after all, just a woman....

ha ha ha