I disagree. As much as I do not like seeing our military over there getting shot at, we must maintain our presence over there until the job is done. To pull out now would only result in a power vacumn of absolute chaos and fighting. The resulting state of Iraq would be a catalyst for terrorist activity 10 times that of the former Iraq. Therefore, transition power over quicker, train more police/army, do whatever it takes, but make sure that a stable government is in place.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I disagree. As much as I do not like seeing our military over there getting shot at, we must maintain our presence over there until the job is done. To pull out now would only result in a power vacumn of absolute chaos and fighting. The resulting state of Iraq would be a catalyst for terrorist activity 10 times that of the former Iraq. Therefore, transition power over quicker, train more police/army, do whatever it takes, but make sure that a stable government is in place.

I agree to an extent Occ the only problem is how many bodies before the job is done, that's the problem facing the administration right now. How fast can they move in an effective manner to rebuild Iraq, have the process of a new government in place and secure the country, all at the same time dealing with daily deaths be it one troop or 10 troops. This administration while I supported them at the onset of the Iraq conflict, has left me with the feeling that they had no solid plan for dealing with the eventualities of occupying a Muslim nation in the heart of the Middle East, and that is unnacceptable. Every blood of a U.S. Soldier is therefore on the hands of the current government, I just hope things change for the better in Iraq.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Even the Dem. candidates (all of them) agree that pulling out completely would be futile. We're there, legally or not (not!), and we have no choice but to stay there for the job of a stable gov. is at least up and running.

I would, however, at the very least take the Chalabi out of there. That guy is nothing shy of a lying sack of shit, and isin't a trusted man whatsoever to the Iraqis.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I agree to an extent Occ the only problem is how many bodies before the job is done, that's the problem facing the administration right now. How fast can they move in an effective manner to rebuild Iraq, have the process of a new government in place and secure the country, all at the same time dealing with daily deaths be it one troop or 10 troops. This administration while I supported them at the onset of the Iraq conflict, has left me with the feeling that they had no solid plan for dealing with the eventualities of occupying a Muslim nation in the heart of the Middle East, and that is unnacceptable. Every blood of a U.S. Soldier is therefore on the hands of the current government, I just hope things change for the better in Iraq.

Yes, I supported the administration in the pressure it put on Iraq ... I did not support its premature invasion. And the stupidest thing the administration did was not the invasion itself, it was the disbandment of the entire Iraqi army after victory. Just think ... they had the necessary tools of over 100,000 soldiers, Iraqis no less, to patrol Iraq already in PLACE. In their fervor of de-baathification, they now have 100,000+ well trained Iraqis out of work. Stupid, stupid, stupid ...

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Retro ...

Well as you know Occ I am a quasi-isolationist, hence my bring the troops home logic, in that I say world influence be damned if the French, Germans, Chinese want to spread their influence go ahead, its an S.O.B. however to do. I am still trying to figure out fully the complete disbandment of the Iraqi army, claims have been made that they just fell apart themselves and had no barracks or anything of that nature left. Still over 100,000 plus that would have been a nice chunk of Iraqis helping out now, whichever way you look at it.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

i was absolutely outraged by these actions and i cannot believe some people would defend a country filled with idiots of such animalistic behavior. It's one thing to lose a life in the heat of a battle. But do u see americans grabbing the bodies of their enemy and smashing their faces in with stones and rocks? Those sick people will never get charged with a single war crime. but when a colonol in our (US) army roughs up two iraqis for intelligence, he gets recommended for a dishonorable discharge and possibly stand trail for an international crime.

5 + 5 = 10 makes sense!

can anyone make sense out of these actions?!

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Thank You and Goodnight

In every war this shit happens.
You don't want to know how people got massacred / tortured in Vietnam...
Every1 does it (atleast at that time)

Weirdest history I heard was from a friend. His dad was in Congo with the army and they got so fed up with those people, their mentality, their visual hate against the army they started eating their dinner from dead bodies...
(The father did college and came from a good family)
War makes people go totally insane...

Mutilation is a part of that

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hey guys what do you expect???

these soldiers are occupiers, the "slainers" want to liberate their country and every mean is good when you're fighting such a strong enemy as the US Army.

are you saying that fighting with a gun and knife is more horrible than dropping a 2000 lbs bomb from 10 000 feet high? the second method is only impersonnal and we don't really see the guts of thos "barbars" on tv, but they're still there, if any left.

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[/IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/ngycqo.png[/IMG]

"U.S. Retracts Report of G.I.'s Being Mutilated"

Military officials retracted a report today that two American soldiers had been slashed in their throats in an attack Sunday in the northern city of Mosul. A military official here, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that the two soldiers had died of gunshot wounds to the head and that their bodies had been pulled by Iraqis from their car and robbed of their personal belongings and weapons. The military official said that contrary to some reports, the men had not been beaten by rocks or mutilated in any way. Despite today's statements, important questions remained unanswered about the incident. The main one was why the men were traveling alone through the city streets. Military rules in Mosul and other parts of Iraq generally prohibit troops from traveling outside their bases except in a convoy. The Americans who were killed were traveling in an unarmored sport-utility-vehicle. "There is no excuse," the military official said. Another mystery was the initial reports about the men having their throats cut. The official could offer no explanation for that.

-This is something I found very odd the moment I heard about this situation, why would two troops be travelling by themselves in an S.U.V. when it is the military procedure that they travel in convoys to prevent this kind of scenario from occurring.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

I think the war the US is continuing is futile in the sense of wasting lives of their own people that die knowing that they arent fighting against an opposing force to keep their country free.

IMO, its time for a UN/US presence. Let the UN deal with restructuring and building the government.

quote:

Originally posted by Dmatrox I think the war the US is continuing is futile in the sense of wasting lives of their own people that die knowing that they arent fighting against an opposing force to keep their country free. IMO, its time for a UN/US presence. Let the UN deal with restructuring and building the government.

I disagree for two reasons:
1: I think its about time the US follows through on one of their regime changes.
2: Seeing how international/diplomatic institutions are targeted for terror in Iraq, I fear that blue helmets and white vehicles won't inspire any respect or gratitude in Iraqis.