I read this earlier:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/02/s...hips/index.html



Is it right for the federal or local governments to fund theological studies for students? I'm personally against this on the grounds of the seperation between church and state, but people, namely the religious right, complain that not funding students for theological studies violates 1st (frredom of religion) and 14th (equal rights & protection) amendments.

quote:

Originally posted by PHALPAX I read this earlier:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/02/s...hips/index.html Is it right for the federal or local governments to fund theological studies for students? I'm personally against this on the grounds of the seperation between church and state, but people, namely the religious right, complain that not funding students for theological studies violates 1st (frredom of religion) and 14th (equal rights & protection) amendments.

He qualified for the scholorship so he should be able to choose what he studies. As far as I'm concerned seperation of church and state means they aren't directly related to eachother and the state doesnt support a particular church. Because that doesnt happen in this case I think the kid should get his scholorship.

i think the study of a religion or religions is one thing, practicing it while in school is another thing.

i guess you could argue that someone could practice what they studied - but as long as the study is academic in nature it wouldnt be a big problem i dont think|

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The state may not support any particular church, but isn't the concept of tax payer money going to individuals who attend a religious school and would later go on to be a priest somewhat controversial? Why should tax payers pay for someone to be a priest?

School vouchers have already been upheld at the Supreme Court. The crucial fact is that the government is not making the decision where to spend the money - they give it to someone who can then make their own decision where to spend it. Also see Southworth v. Wisconsin Board of Regents. The government can pass out money, as long as they're neutral about it.

This case presents nearly the same issue. The state has offered the scholarship, but it was up to the student what to study. If the state refuses to allow the student to spend the money on religious education, it's actually violating the neutrality principle.

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Originally posted by imokruok This case presents nearly the same issue. The state has offered the scholarship, but it was up to the student what to study. If the state refuses to allow the student to spend the money on religious education, it's actually violating the neutrality principle.

It is true that the Supreme Court upheld vouchers, see Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, but perhaps what is the most interesting here is that whether federalism will be left intact or not. The Supreme Court has been notorious in terms of eliminating state laws, see Texas sodomy law. It is fascinating to see the federal gov't override state constitutions.....

To deny scholarship for theological study is like someone denying scholarship say if a student was interested in studying political sciences here at the University of Texas (ahh what a coincidence, my major). After all the political science department here is religiously liberal.

So if you are against scholarships for theology I don't see why the Texas government (not liberal) should go out and pay people to be opposed to its ideals by supporting them if they go to the political science department here in my university.

It will be a very scary place when the government tells us what to think, and I don't think anyone really can be for the detention of the scholarship in this case, regardless if the student becomes a priest or not.

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I saw that report on the news last night. I'm all for the seperation of church and state (I wrote my final essay on it), but I think this isn't a matter of that.

If the kid got the scholarship, he should be able to choose what he wants to study. That's discriminatory, to offer a scholarship for an education then strip it simply because it is a religious major. Education is education.

I could see the problem perhaps if he switched to an all religious school, then he should recieve funding from them, but if he is still at a public university, there should be no reason for his scholarship to be taken away.

Discrimination is really getting out of hand. Subjects are being taken far out of context. Taking away a scholarship because of what someone chooses to major in? Come on, give me a break. He's in law school now too, apparantly.

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quote:

Originally posted by PHALPAX but people, namely the religious right, complain that not funding students for theological studies violates 1st (frredom of religion) and 14th (equal rights & protection) amendments.

hahahaha

usually they're the ones arguing against the 14th amendment extending the first amendment to the states!! not to mention the lame argument that i always hear about "this wasn't congress passing a law" infringing on free-exercise (though they only level it at establishment, never free-exercise).

i love it when states' rights advocates support federal intervention when it suits their agenda.

if the kid wins this case, the supreme court won't be considered activist judges legislating from the bench & telling states what to do... but if he loses, they sure as hell will be.


richard

Last edited by devonian rabbit on Dec-04-2003 at 06:48

though it is a bit of a gray area, this does seem to be a violation of free-exercise.. i am very eager to read the decision when it is over.

some issues i'm mulling over in my head concerning this:

should you be able to use it for any subject? astrology? creation "science"?

should there be any limits whatsoever? there is the public/private thing... so, i guess it comes down to: what majors should public schools offer? should public schools have theology as a major?


richard

Last edited by devonian rabbit on Dec-04-2003 at 07:15

I'm trying to think of this from the student's point of view, and personally I would be a bit pissed if I were awarded a scholarship only to have it taken from me because of my choice of major. I don't personally see a problem with his recieving a government scholarship to study divinity, but we'll see what O'connor decides because she is the swing-vote like usual.

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its ironic that studying theology is one of the few courses that make you more ignorant