http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200401/abstinence.asp

Summation (click on link for full story):

quote:

Over half a billion tax dollars have poured into abstinence-only sex education nationwide since House Republicans wrote it into the Welfare Reform Act in 1996. The legislation offers matching grants to districts that adopt its strict guidelines: promoting abstinence from sex until marriage, with contraception discussed only in terms of failure rates. Instructors agree not to tell youngsters how to reduce risk of disease and pregnancy if they are sexually active—a population that numbers half of high-school-age kids. In many if not most programs, the issue is presented in terms of God and morality. Critics call abstinence-only sex education "fear-based" and dangerously incomplete. Traditional "comprehensive" sex education teaches that abstinence is the only sure way to prevent pregnancy and disease but includes information about birth control as well. While abstinence-only is growing rapidly, funding for comprehensive sex education has remained static, despite its proven ability to reduce teen birth rates. Nationwide, the birth rate among 15- to 19-year-olds dropped 26 percent in the last decade. (If abstinence education played a part, no rigorous study has yet shown it. The drop is commonly attributed to concern about AIDS and better contraceptive use.) But 13 states, all in the South, still have teen birth rates that, as one report put it, "rival the rates of nations such as Azerbaijan, Egypt, and Mexico." Overall, the United States leads the industrialized world in teen pregnancy and birth rates; nearly half a million children are born to teen moms each year—11.5 percent of all U.S. births.

As a young person, I think it's completely asinine to tell young people "don't have sex," and then proceed to withhold information from them that could potentially save their lives or prevent unwanted pregnancy and abortion (such as proper condom usage) if they do choose to have sex. Not everyone is religious, and we shouldn’t hold every young person in a public school to the same religious standard. We shouldn’t impose our religious beliefs on these people, and deny them knowledge. Obviously abstinence is the best way to prevent STD and unwanted pregnancy, but make no mistake, the rate of abortion will go up and not down if our country’s teen and unwanted pregnancy rate(s) slows in it's decline or even reverses from the implementation of these idiotic policies.

Some kids live in poor areas and don’t have the resources such as the Internet or even proper libraries to read about contraception. I believe it’s immoral to deny a young person common lifesaving knowledge that they would learn in any other Western country that uses comprehensive sex ed, and I believe we should be following Canada, England, Sweden, France, and other countries’ examples that have less than 50% our teen pregnancy rate.

I was lucky to have gone to school in a school district with reasonable school officials, and to learn comprehensive sexual education.

:clap:



Thoughts?

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Jan-21-2004 at 15:00

Gotta love those faith-based initiatives .

That's nothing compared to Bush cutting funds for AIDS awareness programs in Africa because of their promotion of safe-sex devices like condoms. Something like 1 in 5 adults have AIDS there now (don't quote me on that completely). It's insane how out-of-hand it has gotten there, yet Bush believes it's appropriate to slash those programs that don't promote abstinence. Considering the GOP Congress failed to give the money Bush promised to give for AIDS in Africa last year, things are only getting worse.

Yeah, he's a real humanitarian, isin't he?

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This really doesn't come as any suprise to me, because Bush is an avid Christian and one of the Christian beliefs is that it is a sin to have sex before marriage. If Bush would have said anything else, I would have been astounded. It's basically tested an proved that the abstinance programs don't work and are not going to start working any time soon. We need to drastically cut the funding of these programs in order to put that money into other social problems. The worst thing that could happen is that Bush is re-elected and somehow gets this to pass and allotes more funds for these endangering programs. Germany has the right idea with the "Mach's mit" posters. These have condoms made into various figures (for example a gummi bear) and uses the command form of Machen which means to do. We need contraception programs that explore all aspects, even abstinance, of contraception, i.e. birth control, condoms, abstinance.

look the medical facts side with bush on this one; absetinence prevents disease 100%.

Aside from aids and pregency there is little a condom can do, people should realize that...

I see now problem in making people aware of that.. whether they chose to listen or not is another thing.

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quote:

Originally posted by priveye03 This really doesn't come as any suprise to me, because Bush is an avid Christian and one of the Christian beliefs is that it is a sin to have sex before marriage. If Bush would have said anything else, I would have been astounded. It's basically tested an proved that the abstinance programs don't work and are not going to start working any time soon. We need to drastically cut the funding of these programs in order to put that money into other social problems. The worst thing that could happen is that Bush is re-elected and somehow gets this to pass and allotes more funds for these endangering programs. Germany has the right idea with the "Mach's mit" posters. These have condoms made into various figures (for example a gummi bear) and uses the command form of Machen which means to do. We need contraception programs that explore all aspects, even abstinance, of contraception, i.e. birth control, condoms, abstinance.

I think it should be clear by now that Bush cares nothing about human rights or human health, and I don't see how that makes him a Christian. Anyways, yes we know comprehensive sex ed works because we can look at the statistics from Germany for example and compare them to the US. Even within the US, there is a dramatically lower rate of teen pregnancy and STDs in states that teach proper sex ed versus those that teach Bush sex ed. The rates of STDs in Louisiana for example are off the charts. The people there don't neccesarily have more sex than say California, but they have less access to life saving knowledge and contraceptives than people in California have.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus look the medical facts side with bush on this one; absetinence prevents disease 100%.

That's almost completely beside the point because comprehensive sexual education teaches that abstinence is the most effective and only sure way to prevent pregnancy and STDs. Then, unlike Bush’s favored plans, they also teach about contraceptives without telling the kids lies about how ineffective they are.

I don't think you read the articles I posted.

quote:

Aside from aids and pregency there is little a condom can do, people should realize that...

That's all a condom can do, but it's still a lot.

The best thing is actually for both partners to go in for an STD screening. If you love each other, then you'd both want each other to be healthy. When Clinton was president I remember they used to have clinics that would do free STD screenings, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bush cut their funding or something by now.

quote:

I see now problem in making people aware of that.. whether they chose to listen or not is another thing.

It's about giving people the knowledge they need in life to make healthy decisions. I see now a problem in making people aware of that. But hell, if they choose not to be even swayed by the cold, hard facts, there's no help for them. Most people are reasonable though.

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quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz The best thing is actually for both partners to go in for an STD screening. If you love each other, then you'd both want each other to be healthy. When Clinton was president I remember they used to have clinics that would do free STD screenings, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bush cut their funding or something by now.

I think you're getting too worked up on this issue. I think the basis for Bush's statements is that we a society shouldn't encourage our children to be in a hurry to lose their innocence and engage in activity that could produce more welfare babies, as well as actions that will destroy their chances at a better life in the long-run, simply because a teenage mother most likely must sacrifice her education, and thus her own career potential due to a mistake she made on one carefree night when she was determined to lose her innocence.

Do I think the youth of America will listen to Bush and stop having sex? D'uh, that's an easy no, but the President is trying to pass a message of morality and is trying to give a clear black/white distinction to people. He's trying to send a message to the youth not to throw away their life because they want a nice tingle between their legs on a crazy night when they're 14.

Not sure how to correctly say it, but while I'm not for abstinence (because it will never work), I am not against the President suggesting abstinence. Over time, fewer single mothers and babies that have problems b/c they were born to unfit mothers, as well as fewer tax-payer funded abortions will benefit the whole society as the overall burden will be less.

There is nothing wrong with showing the pros of abstinence--he's not taking away anyone's right to choose. Given that birh control is still prone to not being 100% successful, why would the President suggest anything otherwise? Relax. Get on the Internet and rub one out for free.

People under 18 will always have sex, but I think the message is that they shouldn't have to worry about the baggage that comes along with sex. Why should they be rushed to grow up? Why don't the youth of America cherish their youth?

Shakka, can you state whether you support these programs or not? It seems to me that promoting abstinence is not a bad thing, as you say, but it is completely wrong to go so far as to withhold information to prevent STD's and pregnancy, because, to quote you:

quote:

People under 18 will always have sex

Who's withholding information? Hell, I think it should be the parents' duty to teach their kids about safe sex and what not. Not to mention the fact that most kids have access to the Internet (The Information Superhighway I might add), as well as a dearth of available literature from libraries, universities, doctors' offices, etc... I don't see how the government needs to be such a big factor, and for that matter why they shouldn't teach abstinence(Hell, in China the government sets child quotas and the penalties for disobeying are severe).

I think in the end it just shows how uninvolved parents have become in raising their kids, family values are shit, the divorce rate here is over 50%. Suddenly people care because the government doesn't want kids (I read this to be people under 18) running around having sex. I say fine! Keep the idiots from creating more idiots.

Too many people want the government to take care of everything for them. Tell them what to eat, tell them what to smoke, tell them where to work, take care of them when they're old, pay for their health insurance, etc. They just want to be sheep taken care of by a big almighty goverment that assures them that they'll never have to worry about everything and that they will always be taken care of. If you leave too many responsibilities to the government to decide, you may not be happy with what they decide. This is why personal responsibility is such a crucial ideal to instill in people.

Shit--it doesn't f'ing matterto me what the government wants to teach kids about sex--I plan to be the primary teacher of that information to my kids, and if they come home from school asking me why the school is telling them to practice abstinence, then it's obviously time to sit down and have an honest and open conversation with my kid about the facts of life. It's not like Bush is up there saying, "If you don't practice abstinence until yer 18, yer gonna go ta Hell!". You guys make me laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Who's withholding information? Hell, I think it should be the parents' duty to teach their kids about safe sex and what not. Not to mention the fact that most kids have access to the Internet (The Information Superhighway I might add), as well as a dearth of available literature from libraries, universities, doctors' offices, etc... I don't see how the government needs to be such a big factor, and for that matter why they shouldn't teach abstinence(Hell, in China the government sets child quotas and the penalties for disobeying are severe). I think in the end it just shows how uninvolved parents have become in raising their kids, family values are shit, the divorce rate here is over 50%. Suddenly people care because the government doesn't want kids (I read this to be people under 18) running around having sex. I say fine! Keep the idiots from creating more idiots. Too many people want the government to take care of everything for them. Tell them what to eat, tell them what to smoke, tell them where to work, take care of them when they're old, pay for their health insurance, etc. They just want to be sheep taken care of by a big almighty goverment that assures them that they'll never have to worry about everything and that they will always be taken care of. If you leave too many responsibilities to the government to decide, you may not be happy with what they decide. This is why personal responsibility is such a crucial ideal to instill in people. Shit--it doesn't f'ing matterto me what the government wants to teach kids about sex--I plan to be the primary teacher of that information to my kids, and if they come home from school asking me why the school is telling them to practice abstinence, then it's obviously time to sit down and have an honest and open conversation with my kid about the facts of life. It's not like Bush is up there saying, "If you don't practice abstinence until yer 18, yer gonna go ta Hell!". You guys make me laugh.

good post... parents should be the ultimate teacher when it comes to sex ed. the government should not be held responsible to teach children all the different ways to live their life, the government will want to teach children the way that is most benificial to the society at large, and hence abstenance. it is for society's greater good that pre-18's dont start popping up children for the reasons stated above. at the end of the day no rights have been trampled on, it is the responsibility of the parents to teach the kids morality and how the world works.

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I apologize for any repitition here, I only skimmed the article and your responses because I get really angry and rather upset when I read about it. Bush's moronic policies on sex education have appalled me since his inauguration and it's nice to see that I'm not the only one.

Sexual health is very important to me and Bush's archaic and ignorant views on sexual health have no place in modern society. The idea that not providing instruction on condom use and promoting abstinence will prevent people from having sex is such a non sequiter that I don't know how he came up with the idea in the first place. Sure, condoms are not 100% effective, but even 80% (I'm lowballing the efficacy rate here) is significantly better than the 0% you get without condom use. And does anyone think that people are having less sex because of these policies?

Shakka, do you think the 14-year-olds are going to listen to Bush over the tingle in their legs? (ok, that made me giggle) I think abstinence education is great, but abstinence only is awful. The problem is that Bush is using financial leverage to prevent safe sex practices from being taught in federally funded programs. The only thing these programs are allowed to teach is abstinence -- that's the problem. People are being taught not to use condoms because they're not effective. Please tell me you see the problem here.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Who's withholding information?

Read the original post more carefully. In reference to teaching that condom use can reduce the risk of contracting HIV:

quote:

This policy clearly puts these federal government organizations at odds with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' divisions that run the abstinence-only programs, which cannot by law provide this advice.

Sounds like withholding to me. And yes, this country is going to shit as far as parents raising their kids, responsibility, etc. but does that make a government policy of disseminating misleading information ok? I think you're missing the point here.