First off, DJ Nuclear, let me say i admire your work and your dedication towards us. Thank you very much.

I have a practical question. After reading v1.02 three or four times extensively, i came to realize that maybe the scale correlation isn't necessary for transitions between minors? Let me explain.

According to your minor scale correlations, mixing into a dominant or sub-dominant provides a harmonic connection between 6 of the 7 keys in the target scale. So this is the ultimate harmonic transition, provided that you ignore transitions between the same scale and other than minor to minor.

Taking a look at the scale tables, the other two possible harmonic connections are between the second and the seventh. By taking a look at the easymix wheel, you can see that what that means is that there is a possible harmonic transitions between the root key and two to the right and to the left.
However, testing this in real world, i find that the difference between 6/7 and 5/7 is enourmous. It's still a harmonic mix, but completely different. I can now understand why some of my experiences apparently off key sound right - i was mixing in the second or seventh.

So, what i want to ask you is this: Do you think that for minor to minor transitions, in a practical situation, it isn't better to ignore any other than mixing into a dominant or sub-dominant?
Because mixing into a second or seventh requires a previous attempt to hear if the tracks are really compatible, and for me one of the most important goals of harmonic mixing is really not having to test records live before playing them, as this takes up too much time.

quote:

Originally posted by borron First off, DJ Nuclear, let me say i admire your work and your dedication towards us. Thank you very much. I have a practical question. After reading v1.02 three or four times extensively, i came to realize that maybe the scale correlation isn't necessary for transitions between minors? Let me explain. According to your minor scale correlations, mixing into a dominant or sub-dominant provides a harmonic connection between 6 of the 7 keys in the target scale. So this is the ultimate harmonic transition, provided that you ignore transitions between the same scale and other than minor to minor. Taking a look at the scale tables, the other two possible harmonic connections are between the second and the seventh. By taking a look at the easymix wheel, you can see that what that means is that there is a possible harmonic transitions between the root key and two to the right and to the left. However, testing this in real world, i find that the difference between 6/7 and 5/7 is enourmous. It's still a harmonic mix, but completely different. I can now understand why some of my experiences apparently off key sound right - i was mixing in the second or seventh. So, what i want to ask you is this: Do you think that for minor to minor transitions, in a practical situation, it isn't better to ignore any other than mixing into a dominant or sub-dominant? Because mixing into a second or seventh requires a previous attempt to hear if the tracks are really compatible, and for me one of the most important goals of harmonic mixing is really not having to test records live before playing them, as this takes up too much time.

I was supposed to fix that in this one, or at least elaborate on this, so let me explain here:
The correctness of the mix in these situations depends on the kind of music you're playing. A lot of dance music will just have basslines and maybe an arpeggio or something in the beginning as you mix, so you may very well be able to mix between seconds or sevenths. This is more for genres like house, hardtrance, etc.., and may work fine between certain trance records that start with only two or so notes in the bassline.

Nemesis referred to a mix to the next semitone before in the other guide...however, this will probably sound awful if you're playing two highly melodic tracks over eachother. If it's mostly just bass and the intro's and outro's are simple though, it can be more effective. (Though technically, the mix is into an accidental scale...It's all about the style of mixing and how you present yourself musically. Nothing is wrong as long as it sounds good.)

Also, it's not a given rule that accidentals do not have to be used along with another scale, as long as they aren't too conflicting and sounds good to your ear. Use of accidentals can sound good in a mix if you're very careful about how they are used.

Stuff like that requires practice beforehand though, and it more the stuff of mix CD's than live mixing. And the fact of the matter is, you'll be hardstruck always be able to find a record which is the dominant or subdominant when you are playing live, and a few ugly transitions live will not phase the crowd (trainwrecking will, though).

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The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

Ok thanks for everything! I guess sometimes rules can be broken, as long as we have the ability and luck to do it properly.

I have another question.

What are the relations between majors and minors? I play house music and over time i'm finding out that house has lots of majors (although the large majority is still minor).
In the other thread i asked you if i could treat an A major as an A minor, to which Nem answered that i could get away with that.

So let's suppose i have a track in G major. The corresponding minor is Em, and it's dominant and sub-dominant are Bm and Am. But the G minor dominant and sub-dominant are Cm and Dm.

So does this mean i can mix a track in G major into a track which is either Bm, Am, Cm and Dm? But the mix sounds best if i mix it with the Em dominants right?

quote:

Originally posted by borron I have another question. What are the relations between majors and minors? I play house music and over time i'm finding out that house has lots of majors (although the large majority is still minor). In the other thread i asked you if i could treat an A major as an A minor, to which Nem answered that i could get away with that. So let's suppose i have a track in G major. The corresponding minor is Em, and it's dominant and sub-dominant are Bm and Am. But the G minor dominant and sub-dominant are Cm and Dm. So does this mean i can mix a track in G major into a track which is either Bm, Am, Cm and Dm? But the mix sounds best if i mix it with the Em dominants right?

I wouldn't term them subdominant/dominant when switching keys, but the two intervals which go from major to minor at a 6/7 ratio are 2 and 4 semitones, or A and B minor in the case of G major, as you had stated. The best interval to mix into here is nine semitones, though, or the conjugate scale; in this case, or E minor.

If you look at the ratios, you can see it's a bad idea mixing it as you normally would a minor scale; the fourth and fifth semitone up scale ratios with major vs minor are 3/7 and 5/7 respectively, making it overall probably harmonically jarring. Also, mixing from A minor to A major as well is somewhat of a bad idea, because there are 3 different intervals (however, it might sound somewhat harmonic just because it starts from the same frequency).

House music is nice because of the simplicity of some of it, though, and you might be able to get away with some mixes a lot better than you would with trance.

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Alcoholic Alliance
The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

Thanks!

So, to finish it, in order to simplify the "keying" process, i can label all the majors as their corresponding minors (G to Em, for example), and ignore the majors altogether? Do you think this is a good idea?

quote:

Originally posted by borron Thanks! So, to finish it, in order to simplify the "keying" process, i can label all the majors as their corresponding minors (G to Em, for example), and ignore the majors altogether? Do you think this is a good idea?

I do it the other way round, saying that a tune using a riff in Em is in G, makes it simpler for me. I have it written down which notes are in each scale - a picture of what the musical staff looks like with all the sharps/flats, and they're all labelled as the major ones (C major, G major, and so on) so it makes it simpler for me.

It's been working fine for me so far, no complaints. I guess in theory you should be fine as well...

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Just when you thought this was over, it had only just begun...

harmonic mixing doesnt apply to progressive style right? I only notice it with uplifting trance. Anyways, thats a cool stuff!

AM I the only one who can't link to the guide?

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always in a state of trance

Nah, doesnt work for me either.

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Meh

Doh, was looking forward to reading this

if anyone has it could they drop a PM so they could possibly email me it

thanks