All righty then!

What exactly do you think equality is and why do you think that it is a bad thing to strive for?

Do you think we have equality now?

Arbiter: I agree (except for the two "but we know it is a lie"-statements - you cannot *know* that). However, you must acknowledge that the proportion of the human race, who has something to win by rejecting equality as an idol, is much smaller than that of those who benefit from it. As such, I think that investing a lot of effort into converting the "flock" might not be an optimal course of action - you are bound to be defeated.
If you would be victorious, though, what would you gain from others accepting that humans are not created nor should be treated equal?

Might I use this thread to recommend a great short story by Kurt Vonnegut. It's called "Harrison Bergeron," and it takes the idea of equality and runs with it.

http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

Probably sounded great when you wrote it Arbiter, but not so great when you sobered up, huh? LIke, WTF, bottom line up front please.

is that who won American idol?

I have to be honest, I completely didn't watch this season at all.

Aside from that Hung guy hes funny.

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quote:

Originally posted by emander Probably sounded great when you wrote it Arbiter, but not so great when you sobered up, huh? LIke, WTF, bottom line up front please.

I really cannot believe that I am actually replying to one of your posts, but I fail to drum up the stoicism required for letting this one pass:
So far, every post of yours that I have read have failed to add *any* substance or perspective to the discussion in the thread in question. I suspect that your main objective is to stir shit, rather than engage in sensible discussions, but please prove me wrong.
If you really are sincere (here goes nothing ), let me hear your latest thoughts on life... oh wait, they're probably not important - let's keep zombieng our way through life. It got GWB somewhere...
If you're a pathetic loser intent on stirring shit and nothing more, then please find some other forum. Arbiter seems to be one of the last PFRs who ventures into the philosophical venues. He (?) should be applauded - not mocked.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I really cannot believe that I am actually replying to one of your posts, but I fail to drum up the stoicism required for letting this one pass: So far, every post of yours that I have read have failed to add *any* substance or perspective to the discussion in the thread in question. I suspect that your main objective is to stir shit, rather than engage in sensible discussions, but please prove me wrong. If you really are sincere (here goes nothing ), let me hear your latest thoughts on life... oh wait, they're probably not important - let's keep zombieng our way through life. It got GWB somewhere... If you're a pathetic loser intent on stirring shit and nothing more, then please find some other forum. Arbiter seems to be one of the last PFRs who ventures into the philosophical venues. He (?) should be applauded - not mocked.

To be perfectly honest Trancaholic, Arbiter's post was a load of bull shit that he himself probably has no idea what he was bangin on about!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley To be perfectly honest Trancaholic, Arbiter's post was a load of bull shit that he himself probably has no idea what he was bangin on about!

Why? Because you disagree? I would concede that the post is in a somewhat exotic language but that doesn't invalidate the points on why equality is not to be the object of blind pursuit. If you have any good arguments as to the opposite then I (for one) would like to read them - I think it is a fascinating topic.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Why? Because you disagree? I would concede that the post is in a somewhat exotic language but that doesn't invalidate the points on why equality is not to be the object of blind pursuit. If you have any good arguments as to the opposite then I (for one) would like to read them - I think it is a fascinating topic.

Precisely, quite frankly George, I'm getting increasingly exasperated at your inflammatory posting style whereby you launch a tirade of insults and ad hominems, rather than addressing the point at hand.

I happen to disagree with Arbiter (I'll try and get a reply written up if possible, although due to being disturbingly busy - I can't guarantee it), but that doesn't mean that I automatically dismiss his post as 'a load of bull shit!' and announce that he doesn't even know what he's actually proposing. What is achieved by simply insulting someone? Does it help to further the quality of discussion around here? No, it doesn't. Say why you think his post is a 'load of bull shit' rather than just simply saying that it is.

Ugh, now that I've got that out of the way, I'm off to get some much needed sleep.

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Ok, now after realizing we aren't debating the new American idol, let me post my thoughts:


Arbiter, when you mentioned "All men are created equal" this statement does not apply broadly. It does not mean I'm equally as smart as you, and it does not mean I'm equally as beautiful as hmm... err... who shall I name... ehh Tahti?

What All mean are created equal is about, and only about is our political equalities. What that means is that even though we might not be physically or even mentally equal to one another, I have the same rights as anyone else - these rights are based upon the natural law which are basically an expanded version of the golden rule.

This I do believe, that almost all people are capable of obeying and participating by the natural laws. Although I might agree with you that equality in all other realms should not be strived for, in the political realm it is demanded - it is the enforcer of liberty a greater virtue then equality. The question is when equality in the political realm moves into a different realm.

Since all men are created equal - we shouldn't allow women to have the vote (something very unpopular yet, that I support... I'm glad there are never any women on this forum ) But which line do we cross when we give women the vote? Apparently none... as Men these days means Men and Women. How about gays? We give them the vote, does this cross any line however? How about a serial killer? We don't give him the vote (assuming he has been captured) or a lunitic, we don't give them a vote. But what is the criteria?

That is the only problem I can see with the strive for political equality, it becomes murky in new fields. Of course today giving the slaves equality is a no brainer - it has become common acceptance, but when it happened it was on the fringe. One couldn't really know if it was in the political realm or another realm...

I think that is the only problem with equality.

Equality should be strived for in the political realm, not in our other realms... but if we grant it in one realm how can we make sure it doesn't spread into the others? We can't, the question is how we draw the line - and we haven't been able to do that either.

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I think God creates them all equal and society sorts them out.