Good letter Swamper, I read this earlier and totally understood his feelings about inadaquacies in what happened. This is what we should be worrying about, not who did it, or Nostradamus. This puts more crap information in our lives.

I went home from the train to NYC on Tues, and just realize that I couldn't do anything about what happened. Then I thought about if my family is safe. This blow took alot of our securities away from ourselves.

America will be stronger after this, but we will be more cautious in our relations and policies.

God Bless everyone and their families. Please give blood if you are in the US.

Payce

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"The mind is like a parachute, it works better if it's open."

Wow thats some of the most honest journalism i've seen in a long long time. He's got guts to write something like that at a time like this and i respect that a lot. Sadly this stuff is so true, i know you americans may not like to hear this stuff but it's dead true.

I abhor violence and i want nothing more then the apprehension of the purpetrators brought to justice in ANY way shape or form but lets make sure we get the right person responsible for it. And the old adage is true you know. When you point your finger at someone there's four left pointing at you.

The US is the most violent country on the planet (outside of South Africa, and i was there). It has helped keep regimes in power and financed wars and all for political power. Who do you think sponsored Saddam back when Iraq and Iran were at war with each other. Why the US were giving him arms and CIA personal to teach him how to use those arms. And now Saddam is the biggest vilest baddie on the planet (well second to bin laden of course) because he got a bit greedy and decided to take back land that actually did belong to Iraq years ago. And of course to show off a bit of might and get some more oil barrels.

Well what did the US do but step in right fast. Why? because it wanted to free the Kuwaiti's? nah...because Saddam was gonna have a big monopoly on the Oil and it would rise the oil prices for the average american. So off to war we go!!

There's thousands of war vets that weren't even told that the shells they were firing from their tanks were depleted uranium tipped. Hundreds are suffering from Gulf war syndrome that the government hasn't even admitted to being dangerous. Some interesting information about the sanctions on Iraq and the effect it's having on it's people
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1812/18120630.htm

What about Bosnia? Did the US step in to protect the people there? No there's no Oil there so they didn't bother for a few years till it was necessary.

I'm sure someone is going to knock what i have to say but before you do go do some research on what I've said and then come back and knock me

Why can't the world just get along and live harmoniously? Why do we see the need to put down/make fun of/hurt/kill/bomb someone just because they're different then us and have a different culture or religion. I'm just sick of it!! Lets just live in peace and harmony and get along with our fellow man. Lets not be too quick to point the finger or pass the blame here. And as the Bible says...He that has no sin among you, let HIM cast the first stone

Sorry if i've ranted but it's been bugging me.....

Read this is if you're looking for more information
http://www.stateterrorism.freeservers.com/newpage1.htm

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Visit the secret Ninja site!! here
https://www.facebook.com/jon.hellyer

Last edited by Tranzmit on Sep-14-2001 at 17:26

I'm speechless.......this man should run for president! He shows intelligence and logical thinking, rationality and he doesn't start to be violent towards possible suspects....man! if only bush could think this way.....

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Mayibuye Africa!Viva Mexico - Hasta la Chingada!Malaysia I will be there

yeah this guy definetly has some perspective on the issue...it was terrible what happened...but there are alot of things that people have over-looked when trying to understand the reasons for the attack. people get hot-headed and just want instant revenge without thinking about how we could change so this wouldn't happen again.

Sincerly that's the best analysis i've read since the events of tuesday ... he said it all , now America shouldn't be surprised if a lot of people in other countries hate them . Like we say in french : ils ont recolté les fruits de ce qu'ils ont semé (they collected the fruit of what they sowed) ... Anyways , i still agree that civilians must stay out of this kind of things , if there's a war then it should be between politicians (not even soldiers , soldiers don't decide) .

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"A style that's impossible to define. Prog? Hardly. Tech house? Not boring enough. It's like trippy twisted acid house but deep and funky. See, I told you - impossible."

wow im speechless not for same the reasons you all posted about but for the opposite i cant beleive all the replies to this article i will agree this attack should somewhat be expected and our airport security is very lax but for all the statements or inacurracy after make me sad america does have a strong influence over the world both politically and financially (look at the worlds stock markets now) and when the us helped arm bin laden and the other jihad freedom fighters were when the soviet union invaded afganastan the usa has always publicly stated we will help any country in need and we have i know there is a large anti american sentiment world wide and it is soooooo unfair i received this article in my email from a friend in canada its an editorial page artcle from a paper up there
it goes as follows



"You have to wear your heart just like a gun."-Jack Ingram



>
>Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:09:36 EDT
>
>Subject: America
>
>I just received this from a friend and it is thought provoking to say the
>least. I am proud to call this great country my home and hope you will
>share this article with the people you know.
>Elizabeth
>
>TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
>
>This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
>
>America: The Good Neighbor.
>
>"Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
>remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian

>television and radio Commentator. He can be heard daily on CJAD 800 AM
>radio. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed
>in the Congressional Record:
>
>"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most

>generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
>Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out
>of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and
>forgave other billions in debts.
>
>None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining

>debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in
>1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be
>insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
>
>When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries
>in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
>tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped

>billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those
>countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
>
>I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
>erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any
other
>country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
>Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
>
>If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except

>Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider

>putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
>technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and
>you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men
>on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.
>
>You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
>window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued

>and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they
>are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at

>home to spend here.
>
>When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
>age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad
>and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.
>Both are still broke.
>
>I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
>people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced
>to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
>during the San Francisco earthquake.
>
>Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired
>of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
>their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose
>at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada

>is not one of those."
>
>Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!"
>
>This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding the
>United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I only wish that the

>rest of the world would realize it. We are always blamed for everything,
>and never even get a thank you for the things we do.
>
>I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as you can

>and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their friends until
>this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am just a single
>American that has read this, I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON
>
>
when i recieved this it brought more tears to my eyes as all this weeks activities have done its too late now but i would really love for us to get a president who would say ok america we do need to help our country so from jan. 1 to the following jan 1 we will NOT aide any foriegn country or entity for one entire year and see how the world does on its own. im trying to be mightier than thow but but im sick of people looking at the small picture instead of the large

godbless america this is the greatest country in the world!

For those of you who don't, please subscribe to his mailing list, this man is a really cool guy and has such a great view on things.

His monthly (usually) emails are always a great read, and if you didn't know he has some great documentaries, Roger and Me, and the Big one.... Highly recommend them both if you appreciate his writing.

Thanks for posting that Swamper, people need to see some honesty right now, its so easy to get caught up in all this mess.

___________________
Administrator of the Shroomery

signing up right now

Juzfugen, if we d hold a pop quiz with like 5000 ppl, from all around the world, bout the world, and all countries, religions, nations etc in it, i bet the Americans will FAIL the test, cuz u dunno whaz goin on in the world, damn, id be amazed if 6 out of 10 ppl from the US can locate 5 random countries on this planet!!! the other day we dedicated like an entire class on the USA, analizing what happened, how and why... we came to the conclusion that most Americans r short minded, believe EVERYTHING the press says, think they know everything the best and think America rules the world, well, to all those Americans who believe that: GET FUCKING REAL!!!!!!!! America is big, ok, so a lot of ppl live there, ok, so when u got a lot of ppl, u got a bigger chance that THEY discover smth, or do smth good, ok, so iz more than reasonable a big country makes more money, ok, so it has a big influence on the world, ok, but that doesnt mean u r the best!!!! just for fun, compare Americas numbers (any of them) to those of the rest of the world, not absolute, no, cuz ofcourse America will come out best, but now, take it relative, see how bad America will come out!!!!

and the "American freedom", id like to know what they think IS freedom?? cuz i dont really got a clue how u can call urself free, in a country that strangles itself in rules...

just some random rant, thanx for ur time

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I SUCK MONKEYS IN HELL

impressive letter...

I found this article somwhere , i donno if u guys interested :

quote:

>On December 27, 1985 I found myself caught in the middle of a terrorist >incident at the Vienna airport -- which left 30 people dead, both there and >at the Rome airport. (The machine-gunning of passengers in each city was >timed to occur at the same moment.) > >I do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still brings up >too much despair and confusion as to how and why I got to live. a fluke, a >mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and I am still here, there but for the >grace of. > >Safe. Secure. I'm an American, living in America. I like my illusions. I >walk through a metal detector, I put my carry-ons through an x-ray machine, >and I know all will be well. > >Here's a short list of my experiences lately with airport security: > >* At the Newark Airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. The counter >can't find my seat. So I am told to just "go ahead and get on" -- without a >ticket! > >* At Detroit Metro Airport, I don't want to put the lunch I just bought at >the deli through the x-ray machine so, as I pass through the metal detector, >I hand the sack to the guard through the space between the detector and the >x-ray machine. I tell him "It's just a sandwich." He believes me and doesn't >bother to check. The sack has gone through neither security device. > >* At LaGuardia in New York, I check a piece of luggage, but decide to catch >a later plane. The first plane leaves without me, but with my bag -- no one >knowing what is in it. > >* Back in Detroit, I take my time getting off the commuter plane. By the >time I have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers to the >terminal has left -- without me. I am alone on the tarmac, free to wander >wherever I want. So I do. Eventually, I flag down a pick-up truck and an >airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the terminal. > >* I have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion brought a >hammer and chisel. No one stopped us. > >Of course, I have gotten away with all of this because the airlines consider >my safety SO important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour to make sure the >bad guys don't get on my plane. That is what my life is worth -- less than >the cost of an oil change. Too harsh, you say? Well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on American Eagle >(the commuter arm of American Airlines) receives around $15,000 a year in >annual pay. > >That's right -- $15,000 for the person who has your life in his hands. Until >recently, Continental Express paid a little over $13,000 a year. There was >one guy, an American Eagle pilot, who had four kids so he went down to the >welfare office and applied for food stamps -- and he was eligible! Someone on welfare is flying my plane? Is this for real? Yes, it is. > >So spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the FAA is >taking. They, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing -- the >bottom line and the profit margin. > >Four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the >same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? My only >response is -- that's all? > >Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the "terrorist >threat" and today's scariest dude on planet earth -- Osama bin Laden. Hey, >who knows, maybe he did it. But, something just doesn't add up. > >Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert >has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets >with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets >without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? > >Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political >fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to >want to kill themselves today? > >Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause -- but >FOUR? Ok, maybe you can -- I don't know. > >What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about this bin >Laden guy except this one fact -- WE created the monster known as Osama bin >Laden! > >Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA! How embarassing is that? > >Don't take my word for it -- I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that laid it >all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained him and >his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the Soviet forces. >It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for >what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques >against us. > >We abhor terrorism -- unless we're the ones doing the terrorizing. > >We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in the >1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work. You and me. >Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers! > >We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of innocent >people, and we never let the human suffering THAT causes to interrupt our >day one single bit. > >We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with >our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in Salvador) >that I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised when those orphans grow up and >are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause. > >Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted by a guy >from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of ex-military guys >who hated the federal government. > >From the first minutes of today's events, I never heard that possibility >suggested. Why is that? > >Maybe it's because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient in >getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the >all-important race card. It's much easier to get us to hate when the object >of our hatred doesn't look like us. > >Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money for the >military; one Senator on CNN even said he didn't want to hear any more talk >about more money for education or health care -- we should have only one >priority: our self-defense. > >Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when >the rest of the world isn't living in poverty so we can have nice running >shoes? > >In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. He >withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban conference on >racism, insists on restarting the arms race -- you name it, and Baby Bush >has blown it all. > >The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous version of >"God Bless America." They're not a bad group of singers! > >Yes, God, please do bless us. > >Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did >not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did >so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New >York, DC, and the planes' destination of California -- these were places >that voted AGAINST Bush! > >Why kill them? Why kill anyone? Such insanity. > >Let's mourn, let's grieve, and when it's appropriate let's examine our >contribution to the unsafe world we live in. > >It doesn't have to be like this. > >Yours, > >Michael Moore >[email protected]

This is just an article to express views . So tell me what u think , or if u want keep it to urself.I am just showing a point of view.

Great to see an individual who`s thinking logically, and shares the same facts&ideas as me, not just someone "going with the crowd" ...
Indeed as i mentioned @ another forum, CIA & USA ows it to themselves in fact...what is called Blowback...

Thank you!

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