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Originally posted by Jayx1 And banning displays in stores? Thats just ludicris. If the government were serious they'd just ban tobacco instead of making all these ridiculous laws that skirt around prohibition while trampling on everyone's rights.

they cannot make tabacco illegal just like that. Farmers and tobacco companies have licenses to grow and distribute it, so they have a contract which allows them to sell it. Thats from my understanding.

And as for banning it outside? haha yeah right, now way they would do that. I hate smokes, but even i wouldnt want that, its just mean.

the DSRs i think were a good compromise. But again, i think its because the workers still have to go in there. I know iknow, its the worker's choice to work in there or not.

What i think they are trying to protect against is, employers who hold jobs over people's heads with something like that. "dont want to work in the smoking room? fine you are fired" This way, everbody is on a level playing field. Im not saying this is the right course of action, but just commenting on why they did it.

DSRs were only ever a transition to policies already known to be coming in the future anyways...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

As a non smoker i want to tell you what this will do to the industry i work in. Nobody asked me, a non smoker, how i felt about possible job losses as a result of crusades to "protect my health". Id rather have happy customers and a job then worry about someone having a cigarette. Seriously with all the crap you breathe in just walking down richmond st a cig shouldnt be so worrysome.

$1.7 billion on the health care system? And how much money in cig taxes did the ontario government make last year? I think they at least broke even in that deal and that doesnt even count what the feds took in. So the healthcare arguement doesnt work for me even if it were only based on numbers. The scary part about people who use the healthcare system as a crutch is that they set a precedent for all kinds of things. "i dont want to pay for your bad eating habits' will be the next orweillian thing people say. People who use the healthcare angle to try and force their will on others make me wish we had a private system where we could worry about our own damn lives. Giving up my freedom to choose how i live is not worth 4 hour line ups in the emergency ward im sorry.

DSRs were an ok comprimise but sadly you give them an inch and they take a mile. This madness has to stop.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

jayx1, health and social costs vastly outweigths revenus from tobacco sales, don't event try to go there.

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nonetheless, the point is still valid. They do pull in QUITE a bit on taxes from cigarettes. The better point that he raised is using the health care system as a crutch. It really is indicative of the form of things to come.

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Originally posted by malek jayx1, health and social costs vastly outweigths revenus from tobacco sales, don't event try to go there.

Here is a social cost no one thinks about. How about the people who are about to lose work and become poor? Think of the costs associated with that. Think about the fact that poverty is directly related to illness. What about the social costs when it comes to the fact that people are going out less often?

And dont tell me that this does not affect the numbers and employment in the service industry because it does.

Im sick of people always trying to "save me from myself" without even asking if i want to be saved.

I ask this question. What difference does it make if DSRs exist or not? Non smokers dont have to go in there. Why do non smokers care so much? It goes beyond the "i dont want to smell smoke" arguement when we ban DSRs. Now its simply the morality police trying to dictate how people should live.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by zokissima nonetheless, the point is still valid. They do pull in QUITE a bit on taxes from cigarettes. The better point that he raised is using the health care system as a crutch. It really is indicative of the form of things to come.

exactly and thats what scares me even more than the prospect of less employment.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

This is an insult to our veterans. I am phoning my MPP this afternoon to voice my disgust.

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Originally posted by amb_ This is an insult to our veterans. I am phoning my MPP this afternoon to voice my disgust.

On all levels...

Not only cant they smoke but we have lost a huge part of the freedom they fought for.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Here is a social cost no one thinks about. How about the people who are about to lose work and become poor? Think of the costs associated with that. Think about the fact that poverty is directly related to illness. What about the social costs when it comes to the fact that people are going out less often? And dont tell me that this does not affect the numbers and employment in the service industry because it does. Im sick of people always trying to "save me from myself" without even asking if i want to be saved. I ask this question. What difference does it make if DSRs exist or not? Non smokers dont have to go in there. Why do non smokers care so much? It goes beyond the "i dont want to smell smoke" arguement when we ban DSRs. Now its simply the morality police trying to dictate how people should live.

Jay you KNEW this was coming, this isnt new. You complained about it last summer, when it concerned bars and resturants. So you knew, and you could have stood up and faught. Did you?

How is the bar industry now that there is no smoking? you say lost jobs, bars are as packed as ever from what i see. Can you back up your list job scenerio?

and your comment about, the air being so dirty, who cares about one smoke? ah...i cant even believe you used this an an argument. Did you ever think, that people are trying to reduce the TOTAL amount of pollution being inhaled? Just because the air is polluted, does not mean we should ignore other irratants.

I've got to comment on the supposed job losses that are going to stem from banning smoking in bars and restaurants. Smoking advocates have been crying about this for years. My hometown (Guelph) has had a smoking ban in place for over five years - NOT ONE BAR has closed down because of the ban and they are just as full as they were before the ban.

There will be a decrease in smokers frequenting bars for about six months and then levels will return to normal. Smoking advocates, in order to sustain the job losses argument, need to overcome the lack of logic to their argument. Are smokers going to stay home for the rest of their lives, just so they can smoke? Not likely!

In fact, as a non-smoker, I could make the argument that more people will go to bars now because many non-smokers have avoided bars because they are so smokey.

A second point in favour of banning smoking is smoking advocates' own argument that smokers won't stay as long. This isn't necessarily a bad thing! A higher turnaround of customers allows more people into bars and clubs. Consumer studies have shown that people drink more in the first hour at a bar than in any other time period exceeding one hour. Banning smoking therefore, has the potential of increasing bars alcohol revenues.

Just my $.02