wow i will try this tonight, i am really looking forward to it... thanks for these (hopefully) great tips!!!

Thank you.

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cheers dude.....

just what i needed my kicks have been mainly trial and error recently.

Awesome! Gotta try this later tonight!
Thx mate!

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Last edited by [Alpha]Dave on Jul-10-2006 at 10:39

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West The channel fader should be reading -8db with just the kick playing. Why -8? well you need to produce a mix with an overall output level of -3 to -4db. When you add in all of the other elements that's what the mix should be. Mastering will then bring up the overall level and the final level for the kick should be -3db mastered.

This is so very true, as is the -3 dB mastered level - good stuff.

Personally, I would say use a slightly higher compressor attack time than 0 ms though (somewhere around ~1 ms), at least on the kick compressor alone. But, it all depends on the track in question and whether you're after a smoother or punchier sound of course.

But, why the 800 Hz notch filter, if I may ask? I often consider the ~800 Hz range off limits when EQing a kick, as it both is and isn't a very important range, in that it often is already at a good level and boosting/cutting here doesn't really do anything for the kick. Any reason for it that I might be missing?

Otherwise, your tips are great. Especially the last part, which should hopefully also result in people creating cleaner mixdowns and less heavily limited masters. Some of the parameters (ratio, GR) are getting a bit high for my taste though, and I tend to use a slightly lower release, but these settings will certainly work.

Not to take over your great tutorial though, but if anyone is interested in some EQ settings to try, I posted a similar tutorial to a question on another board here.

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quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis-AR This is so very true, as is the -3 dB mastered level - good stuff.

Why is this? Isnt a kick the loudest part of a track and if so, why should it be at -3dB mastered?

I've read numberous mastering tutorials and threads that state the final master should be close to 0dB or just slightly under this?

??*confused*??

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quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Why is this? Isnt a kick the loudest part of a track and if so, why should it be at -3dB mastered? I've read numberous mastering tutorials and threads that state the final master should be close to 0dB or just slightly under this? ??*confused*??

Sure, the master should be close to 0 dB (I recommend -0.3 dB however), but that doesn't mean the kick should be raised to this level as well. There are other instruments in the mix too, and having the kick peak at around -3.0 dB then allows for the waveform height to increase by an additional 2.7 dB for these.

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

OK, so in the final master with everything else bar the kick and bass turned off should read -3dB?

That makes more sense. Thanks for taking the time to explaining it.

=)

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quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl OK, so in the final master with everything else bar the kick and bass turned off should read -3dB? That makes more sense. Thanks for taking the time to explaining it. =)

You can't turn the kick and bass off in the master. (unless of course you mean the scenario described below)

In the mix however, the kick should peak at around -8 dB, as Dave West said too.

When you come to mastering the tune, often the kick will play on its own at the beginning, and this is where you can check to see if it peaks at around -3 dB.

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

Great post! There is a part that was a little unclear to me though. You said:

quote:

The Kick and Bass must be compressed together. So create a stereo Group in Cubase or a stereo Bus object in Logic. Set the kick channel output to that group or bus. Insert a compressor here. Gain reduction should be -6db. Threshold: -8db Attack: 0ms Release: 80ms Ratio: 9:1 Knee: hard to soft

I assume the bass should be routed to that buss/group as well? This also means that the kick will be compressed twice then (not including mastering compression), is that desirable?
One more thing, in my experience, when compressing the bass and the kick together the volumes of both have to be adjusted very carefully, otherwise, if for instance the bass volume is set too high it will drown out the kick. Or am I doing something wrong?

-REMIDI

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quote:

Originally posted by DJREMIDI I assume the bass should be routed to that buss/group as well? This also means that the kick will be compressed twice then (not including mastering compression), is that desirable?

Yes

quote:

One more thing, in my experience, when compressing the bass and the kick together the volumes of both have to be adjusted very carefully, otherwise, if for instance the bass volume is set too high it will drown out the kick. Or am I doing something wrong?

Good point.
Typical settings I use for a mono bass are...

Fader Volume: -6db to -10db depending on the bass source
EQ: High-Pass at 50hz and a notch at 400hz, low-pass at 4khz

The bass needs to be compressed also prior to being routed to the Kick/Bass bus.

Threshold: -12db
Attack: .5 to 1ms
Release: 50ms
Ratio: 4:1
Makeup-gain: +4db

To get the kick/bass combination flowing well, use the level fader on the bass - leave the kick alone.